5 ms·

The 20% Project (like Google) In My Class

66 points by ajjuliani 15y ago

elisee 15y ago
Is taking 20% of only a few hours with a particular teacher going to be enough? It might be hard for students to do anything worthwhile with such a short timelength split over weeks. I'd go as far as to say it might be frustrating because the idea is awesome but they won't be able to really achieve stuff in this context. Still a great initiative! I wish that, starting with high school, most teaching was project-based and schools worked to enable students to discover and learn stuff they care about, rather than shoving knowledge down one's throat. Want to make video games? Learn woodwork? Build an electronic device? Learn cooking? Schools should strive to provide a framework to make those things happen! I think teaching people to be passive and keeping them from being productive until their twenties is a huge factor in school failure, dropping out and lots of social issues (at least in France where I'm from).
- ajjuliani 15y ago
  I think this is one of the real questions I had when deciding whether or not to do it. But, in terms of my class, I want to give students that ownership and freedom even if it is for a short time period.
- aik 15y ago
  I would think that 20% would be enough to make a difference. The main thing the students need is the catalyst -- once they get started, I could foresee many (not all) students spent much more than 20% of their time simply because they are actually enjoying school and enjoying learning.
eykanal 15y ago
What an excellent idea. Giving free reign makes the class more enthusiastic, and more enthusiasm will hopefully make the learning process that much more effective. My prediction: You'll have 1/3 of the class do something completely stupid just to pass the course, 1/3 put in some good effort but a mediocre idea, and 1/3 who do something pretty interesting.
guard-of-terra 15y ago
You have to document it and then present it to the class. What's new there? How is it different from "just project"? The thing about 20% (supposedly, I don't have first-hand experience) that most of results would go straight to the trash. Because you had this idea but it didn't end with anything. And that's the beauty. Also, you're not forced to do it. You can't allocate creativity in time slots.
- ajjuliani 15y ago
  The difference in my mind is that you are not graded on the documentation or the presentation. Therefore, you are not being "forced to do it" for an extrinsic reward. But I do understand your point. As teachers we are still bound by time and curriculum.
  - bmj 15y ago
    How are you keeping the students accountable if they are not being graded? I'm not attempting to criticize the idea (I'm rather interested in it), but I'm curious how you deal with the student that says "I'm not being graded, so I'm not doing it."
    - ajjuliani 15y ago
      This question did come up in my class. I said "if you do not want to take this opportunity seriously and would rather be graded on an assignment, I'll gladly assign you a different project for the rest of the year that I will grade you on." He stayed with the 20% project. The accountability is in the documentation and the presentations. More of a peer accountability than anything else (which I think is powerful). I'd be happy to hear any suggestions!
      - bmj 15y ago
        Sounds like a reasonable policy. I'll be curious to hear how it all turns out.
- jmilloy 15y ago
jmilloy 15y ago
"Many times in education we believe the only way to hold students accountable is by giving some form of assessment." What is the aversion to assessment? If I did work in a class, or in any context with a mentor, and did not receive assessment, I would feel cheated. This is a great thing to do. I did something similar teaching English writing abroad - 80% free time (except it had to be writing of some sort) and I assessed heavily. This doesn't mean dry numbers tied to a near-sighted rubric. Giving students ownership over their learning is essential, and this is the right direction. You have to extend this paradigm to all aspects of teaching (including assessment) rather than just leaving some parts out.
- invalidOrTaken 15y ago
  The aversion is to assessment in the service of future employers. Assessment for feedback's sake is a great help to learning, but grades are much more of the first type than the second.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    The aversion is to assessment in the service of future employers. I don't think this is true. Based on the behavior of my students (back when I taught), they all seemed to care a great deal about assessment that would help future employers evaluate them (i.e., their grade). In contrast, they cared very little about actual learning or feedback that helped them to achieve it.
- aik 15y ago
  There is a difference between assessment/evaluation and feedback, and the teacher may simply have the aversion to assessment/evaluation. That is, that one can provide excellent feedback without the feeling of evaluation. The focus is simply different but can have a major impact, and should result in the complete opposite of making you feel cheated (receiving feedback for feedback's sake, rather than for artificial reasons such as grades). Simply receiving feedback without grades means the only factor that leads to action is an intrinsic motivation, meaning learning and accomplishment are the most important things for the student. Assessment/evaluation always has a component of extrinsic motivation present (ie. an artificial targets), which often leads to the importance of grades over learning. Importance of grades over learning leads to shallow-learning practices, which often leads to horrible retention and a dislike for learning... and so the self-destructive process often proceeds.
yonasb 15y ago
I've heard from several current Google employees that the so-called "20% time" is known in the office as "120% time". Meaning you don't get time to work on it, you simply work on something on top of what you already do. Which actually defeats the purpose and just gets employees to use their personal free time to work on a company project. Nonetheless, it's a good idea for a class, as long as you make sure to give them 20% of class time to work on it
- a1k0n 15y ago
  Scott Adams had a take on that recently: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/ http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/
qeorge 15y ago
My 8th grade science teacher did this for us and it changed my life. I chose to learn Java and then HTML. 15 years later, I'm making websites and writing Android apps at my own company. I cannot think of a single experience in all of my education that had anywhere near the impact on my life as that assignment.

66 points by ajjuliani 15y ago

Is taking 20% of only a few hours with a particular teacher going to be enough? It might be hard for students to do anything worthwhile with such a short timelength split over weeks. I'd go as far as to say it might be frustrating because the idea is awesome but they won't be able to really achieve stuff in this context. Still a great initiative! I wish that, starting with high school, most teaching was project-based and schools worked to enable students to discover and learn stuff they care about, rather than shoving knowledge down one's throat. Want to make video games? Learn woodwork? Build an electronic device? Learn cooking? Schools should strive to provide a framework to make those things happen! I think teaching people to be passive and keeping them from being productive until their twenties is a huge factor in school failure, dropping out and lots of social issues (at least in France where I'm from).

ajjuliani 15y ago
I think this is one of the real questions I had when deciding whether or not to do it. But, in terms of my class, I want to give students that ownership and freedom even if it is for a short time period.
aik 15y ago
I would think that 20% would be enough to make a difference. The main thing the students need is the catalyst -- once they get started, I could foresee many (not all) students spent much more than 20% of their time simply because they are actually enjoying school and enjoying learning.

eykanal 15y ago

What an excellent idea. Giving free reign makes the class more enthusiastic, and more enthusiasm will hopefully make the learning process that much more effective. My prediction: You'll have 1/3 of the class do something completely stupid just to pass the course, 1/3 put in some good effort but a mediocre idea, and 1/3 who do something pretty interesting.

guard-of-terra 15y ago

You have to document it and then present it to the class. What's new there? How is it different from "just project"? The thing about 20% (supposedly, I don't have first-hand experience) that most of results would go straight to the trash. Because you had this idea but it didn't end with anything. And that's the beauty. Also, you're not forced to do it. You can't allocate creativity in time slots.

ajjuliani 15y ago
The difference in my mind is that you are not graded on the documentation or the presentation. Therefore, you are not being "forced to do it" for an extrinsic reward. But I do understand your point. As teachers we are still bound by time and curriculum.
- bmj 15y ago
  How are you keeping the students accountable if they are not being graded? I'm not attempting to criticize the idea (I'm rather interested in it), but I'm curious how you deal with the student that says "I'm not being graded, so I'm not doing it."
  - ajjuliani 15y ago
    This question did come up in my class. I said "if you do not want to take this opportunity seriously and would rather be graded on an assignment, I'll gladly assign you a different project for the rest of the year that I will grade you on." He stayed with the 20% project. The accountability is in the documentation and the presentations. More of a peer accountability than anything else (which I think is powerful). I'd be happy to hear any suggestions!
    - bmj 15y ago
      Sounds like a reasonable policy. I'll be curious to hear how it all turns out.
jmilloy 15y ago

jmilloy 15y ago

"Many times in education we believe the only way to hold students accountable is by giving some form of assessment." What is the aversion to assessment? If I did work in a class, or in any context with a mentor, and did not receive assessment, I would feel cheated. This is a great thing to do. I did something similar teaching English writing abroad - 80% free time (except it had to be writing of some sort) and I assessed heavily. This doesn't mean dry numbers tied to a near-sighted rubric. Giving students ownership over their learning is essential, and this is the right direction. You have to extend this paradigm to all aspects of teaching (including assessment) rather than just leaving some parts out.

invalidOrTaken 15y ago
The aversion is to assessment in the service of future employers. Assessment for feedback's sake is a great help to learning, but grades are much more of the first type than the second.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  The aversion is to assessment in the service of future employers. I don't think this is true. Based on the behavior of my students (back when I taught), they all seemed to care a great deal about assessment that would help future employers evaluate them (i.e., their grade). In contrast, they cared very little about actual learning or feedback that helped them to achieve it.
aik 15y ago
There is a difference between assessment/evaluation and feedback, and the teacher may simply have the aversion to assessment/evaluation. That is, that one can provide excellent feedback without the feeling of evaluation. The focus is simply different but can have a major impact, and should result in the complete opposite of making you feel cheated (receiving feedback for feedback's sake, rather than for artificial reasons such as grades). Simply receiving feedback without grades means the only factor that leads to action is an intrinsic motivation, meaning learning and accomplishment are the most important things for the student. Assessment/evaluation always has a component of extrinsic motivation present (ie. an artificial targets), which often leads to the importance of grades over learning. Importance of grades over learning leads to shallow-learning practices, which often leads to horrible retention and a dislike for learning... and so the self-destructive process often proceeds.

yonasb 15y ago

I've heard from several current Google employees that the so-called "20% time" is known in the office as "120% time". Meaning you don't get time to work on it, you simply work on something on top of what you already do. Which actually defeats the purpose and just gets employees to use their personal free time to work on a company project. Nonetheless, it's a good idea for a class, as long as you make sure to give them 20% of class time to work on it

a1k0n 15y ago
Scott Adams had a take on that recently: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/ http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/

qeorge 15y ago

My 8th grade science teacher did this for us and it changed my life. I chose to learn Java and then HTML. 15 years later, I'm making websites and writing Android apps at my own company. I cannot think of a single experience in all of my education that had anywhere near the impact on my life as that assignment.