4 ms·

Once you agree to make your patents part of a standard, the standard committee forces all patent holders to license their patents under FRAND.

TylerE 4y ago
the F stands for Fair, not Free.
- scarface74 4y ago
  I never said anything differently.
smoldesu 4y ago
Yep. Historically though, Apple's standards have been less about creating convergent technology and more about reinforcing revenue streams. Look at the entire MFi line, a 'standard' that was defined by high-margin Chinese junk that slapped Apple icons on their Bluetooth smart speaker. There wasn't a Cambrian explosion of innovative iPhone tools, but instead a sea of useless iDogs and plastic boomboxes. Apple's greed has clearly hurt their own ecosystem in the past. They've made it completely obvious that their goal is indiscriminate rent collection, and I'd appreciate if that attitude would remain isolated from the ideals of open computing as a whole.
- threeseed 4y ago
  > Apple's standards have been less about creating convergent technology and more about reinforcing revenue streams a) Apple's "standards" are not a proper standard by any definition. b) Their proprietary connectors e.g. Lightning, MagSafe have always been developed when they have believed there was a better user experience available. When there wasn't they have adopted the industry standard e.g. HDMI, USB-C, SD. c) Apple is a massive company that hinges on having a superior user experience to the competition. The idea that programs such as MFI would compromise this in order to create an insignificant revenue stream is illogical.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > Yep. Historically though, Apple's standards have been less about creating convergent technology and more about reinforcing revenue streams. Look at the entire MFi line, a 'standard' That was never a licensed standard overseen by a standards body. Apple contributed to the H.264 standard, and is also a major contributor to the USB C standard, as well as the Thunderbolt standard. > They've made it completely obvious that their goal is indiscriminate rent collection, and I'd appreciate if that attitude would remain isolated from the ideals of open computing as a whole. You realize that’s how the entire industry works right? Cellular standards and most video and modern audio codecs are also licensed via a patent pool. There is no such thing as “open computing” where nothing is licensed from patent holders for anything that the vast majority of people would find usable.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Apple certainly has the legal autonomy to do all of this, I'm not disputing that. My point is that through these decisions, their behaviors obviously constitute market abuse. Something is gravely wrong if you can behave in the manner Apple has and become the world's largest company.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      So is everyone else who you have to license from to create a modern cell phone also engaging in “market abuse”? Do you realize how much money both ARM and Qualcomm make from each cellphone? Do you realize how much Google makes from the patents they bought from Motorola? If you aren’t in the Apple ecosystem, you pay Apple very little to create a cell phone, maybe a few tenths of a cent from H.264. Now compare that to the “essential patents” you have to license to create a 4G or 5G cellphone.

TylerE 4y ago

the F stands for Fair, not Free.

scarface74 4y ago
I never said anything differently.

smoldesu 4y ago

Yep. Historically though, Apple's standards have been less about creating convergent technology and more about reinforcing revenue streams. Look at the entire MFi line, a 'standard' that was defined by high-margin Chinese junk that slapped Apple icons on their Bluetooth smart speaker. There wasn't a Cambrian explosion of innovative iPhone tools, but instead a sea of useless iDogs and plastic boomboxes. Apple's greed has clearly hurt their own ecosystem in the past. They've made it completely obvious that their goal is indiscriminate rent collection, and I'd appreciate if that attitude would remain isolated from the ideals of open computing as a whole.

threeseed 4y ago
> Apple's standards have been less about creating convergent technology and more about reinforcing revenue streams a) Apple's "standards" are not a proper standard by any definition. b) Their proprietary connectors e.g. Lightning, MagSafe have always been developed when they have believed there was a better user experience available. When there wasn't they have adopted the industry standard e.g. HDMI, USB-C, SD. c) Apple is a massive company that hinges on having a superior user experience to the competition. The idea that programs such as MFI would compromise this in order to create an insignificant revenue stream is illogical.
scarface74 4y ago
> Yep. Historically though, Apple's standards have been less about creating convergent technology and more about reinforcing revenue streams. Look at the entire MFi line, a 'standard' That was never a licensed standard overseen by a standards body. Apple contributed to the H.264 standard, and is also a major contributor to the USB C standard, as well as the Thunderbolt standard. > They've made it completely obvious that their goal is indiscriminate rent collection, and I'd appreciate if that attitude would remain isolated from the ideals of open computing as a whole. You realize that’s how the entire industry works right? Cellular standards and most video and modern audio codecs are also licensed via a patent pool. There is no such thing as “open computing” where nothing is licensed from patent holders for anything that the vast majority of people would find usable.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Apple certainly has the legal autonomy to do all of this, I'm not disputing that. My point is that through these decisions, their behaviors obviously constitute market abuse. Something is gravely wrong if you can behave in the manner Apple has and become the world's largest company.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So is everyone else who you have to license from to create a modern cell phone also engaging in “market abuse”? Do you realize how much money both ARM and Qualcomm make from each cellphone? Do you realize how much Google makes from the patents they bought from Motorola? If you aren’t in the Apple ecosystem, you pay Apple very little to create a cell phone, maybe a few tenths of a cent from H.264. Now compare that to the “essential patents” you have to license to create a 4G or 5G cellphone.