3 ms·

I guess we can all agree that in an ideal world no country should attack any other country, no matter whether they have conventional weapons or nuclear weapons

I guess we can all agree that in an ideal world no country should attack any other country, no matter whether they have conventional weapons or nuclear weapons or no military at all. Back in the real world you have to make a tough decision - your ideals versus your wellbeing. You can keep pushing Russia, maybe it will eventually cave in, fine. But what if not? What if Russia eventually tells you in no uncertain terms, one more weapons shipment and we will go nuclear? Do you call and find out whether they bluff or nuke Ukraine? What if they actually do it? Are you willing to escalate from a proxy war with Russia to a war with Russia? Are you willing to make it a nuclear war?

H8crilA 4y ago
I believe the current answer is yes. Certainly the Ukrainians are on board with this plan. The current damage and loss of life and health in Ukraine is already larger than a megaton bomb placed over a large-ish city. Also, the US & NATO voiced publicly their planned response to the usage of a much smaller (kiloton range) nuclear device, namely the complete destruction of the Black Sea Fleet. They did so in the usual way of making former generals speak to the media. It is also important to notice that it's not US/NATO/whoever's decision. The Ukrainians will fight with whatever they have available, a short talk with anyone in the country makes this crystal clear.
mannerheim 4y ago
Either Putin is a reasonable man who can be negotiated with, or a man who is willing to use nuclear weapons to stave off a loss in a war on foreign soil he started. It could also be neither of these, but it cannot be both.
mindslight 4y ago
You're brushed aside the game-theoretic truth in favor of continuing to push this self-defeating what-if worry narrative. Taken to the absurd, your "tough decision" would allow a single madman to ransom the entire world. In the "real world", Ukraine seems quite willing to face the possibility of being nuked - if they were not, they would have already surrendered to the bully with the nukes. And it's the Ukrainians ultimately making the decision to keep defending themselves or not, regardless of this specious reference to "proxy war". Furthermore, offensive nuclear use by Russia would most likely invite an overwhelming conventional retaliation by US and NATO forces, with the goal of preempting Russia from ever doing such a thing again. The alternative would be to just sit back and watch Russia conquer ever-more westward, while suffering the same ongoing "what if" worry.

H8crilA 4y ago

I believe the current answer is yes. Certainly the Ukrainians are on board with this plan. The current damage and loss of life and health in Ukraine is already larger than a megaton bomb placed over a large-ish city. Also, the US & NATO voiced publicly their planned response to the usage of a much smaller (kiloton range) nuclear device, namely the complete destruction of the Black Sea Fleet. They did so in the usual way of making former generals speak to the media. It is also important to notice that it's not US/NATO/whoever's decision. The Ukrainians will fight with whatever they have available, a short talk with anyone in the country makes this crystal clear.

mannerheim 4y ago

Either Putin is a reasonable man who can be negotiated with, or a man who is willing to use nuclear weapons to stave off a loss in a war on foreign soil he started. It could also be neither of these, but it cannot be both.

mindslight 4y ago

You're brushed aside the game-theoretic truth in favor of continuing to push this self-defeating what-if worry narrative. Taken to the absurd, your "tough decision" would allow a single madman to ransom the entire world. In the "real world", Ukraine seems quite willing to face the possibility of being nuked - if they were not, they would have already surrendered to the bully with the nukes. And it's the Ukrainians ultimately making the decision to keep defending themselves or not, regardless of this specious reference to "proxy war". Furthermore, offensive nuclear use by Russia would most likely invite an overwhelming conventional retaliation by US and NATO forces, with the goal of preempting Russia from ever doing such a thing again. The alternative would be to just sit back and watch Russia conquer ever-more westward, while suffering the same ongoing "what if" worry.