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Is net return all that matters? Seems like with increasing heat waves, power outages etc, being able to generate and store your own electricity has value from a

Is net return all that matters? Seems like with increasing heat waves, power outages etc, being able to generate and store your own electricity has value from a resiliency standpoint.

kibwen 4y ago
Note that merely having solar panels on your house doesn't automatically let you run your house off of the panels in the event that the grid goes down. Firstly, if you're connected to the grid, then a single house trying to push power into a downed grid would be like trying to refill the ocean with a super soaker. Even with lots of houses doing it, the frequency would be wildly unstable at best and cause damage to equipment. Secondly, it poses dangers for lineworkers who are probably trying to resolve the outage, by putting surprise voltage into wires. It's certainly possible to have a solar installation that does let you disconnect from the grid, but it requires extra hardware (including a battery backup).
- zo1 4y ago
  I'm not sure what kinds of hardware you guys have seen or been marketed. But from my pov, these are all pretty standard features of most hybrid inverters and come out of the box. The only extra expense to not be grid tied is needing a battery and maybe a tiny amount of extra electrical wiring. It wasn't even a question that popped up during my build. Then again, we regularly have huge rolling blackouts here so we need the inverter to be a giant UPS for the house and be able to use solar and grid at the same time.
- manimino 4y ago
  Exactly right. Typical solar installations keep you on the grid. And when the grid goes out, so do you. To become grid-independent adds substantial expense. Having your own battery adds another $10-20k, along with whatever costs are associated with switching the grid. Also, being off-grid is actually illegal in some places.
  - metadat 4y ago
    Why would it be illegal? Safety concerns? (E.g. freezing in Alaskan winter)
    - manimino 4y ago
      Utilities and governments tend to have close relationships. Governments want utilities to continue working at reasonable prices, so they regulate utilities heavily. In exchange, utilities get protection against competition. This is true in many countries. Specifically around solar, there's a concept called "utility death spiral" where more and more people opt out of the grid, causing the grid to be unmaintainably expensive. This the dream that solar conpanies tell their investors. Power companies would of course want protection from the utility death spiral, and can often get it. Disconnection isn't always illegal. Another form this can take is "all houses have to pay a grid fee, whether or not they are connected".

Is net return all that matters? Seems like with increasing heat waves, power outages etc, being able to generate and store your own electricity has value from a resiliency standpoint.

kibwen 4y ago

Note that merely having solar panels on your house doesn't automatically let you run your house off of the panels in the event that the grid goes down. Firstly, if you're connected to the grid, then a single house trying to push power into a downed grid would be like trying to refill the ocean with a super soaker. Even with lots of houses doing it, the frequency would be wildly unstable at best and cause damage to equipment. Secondly, it poses dangers for lineworkers who are probably trying to resolve the outage, by putting surprise voltage into wires. It's certainly possible to have a solar installation that does let you disconnect from the grid, but it requires extra hardware (including a battery backup).

zo1 4y ago
I'm not sure what kinds of hardware you guys have seen or been marketed. But from my pov, these are all pretty standard features of most hybrid inverters and come out of the box. The only extra expense to not be grid tied is needing a battery and maybe a tiny amount of extra electrical wiring. It wasn't even a question that popped up during my build. Then again, we regularly have huge rolling blackouts here so we need the inverter to be a giant UPS for the house and be able to use solar and grid at the same time.
manimino 4y ago
Exactly right. Typical solar installations keep you on the grid. And when the grid goes out, so do you. To become grid-independent adds substantial expense. Having your own battery adds another $10-20k, along with whatever costs are associated with switching the grid. Also, being off-grid is actually illegal in some places.
- metadat 4y ago
  Why would it be illegal? Safety concerns? (E.g. freezing in Alaskan winter)
  - manimino 4y ago
    Utilities and governments tend to have close relationships. Governments want utilities to continue working at reasonable prices, so they regulate utilities heavily. In exchange, utilities get protection against competition. This is true in many countries. Specifically around solar, there's a concept called "utility death spiral" where more and more people opt out of the grid, causing the grid to be unmaintainably expensive. This the dream that solar conpanies tell their investors. Power companies would of course want protection from the utility death spiral, and can often get it. Disconnection isn't always illegal. Another form this can take is "all houses have to pay a grid fee, whether or not they are connected".