4 ms·

Why not just buy a dumb TV and not connect it to WiFi? There's been a bunch of gnashing of teeth about how they'll connect to open WiFi networks, but I can't r

Why not just buy a dumb TV and not connect it to WiFi? There's been a bunch of gnashing of teeth about how they'll connect to open WiFi networks, but I can't remember the last time I came across a public WiFi network without a captive portal that would block their attempt to phone home. That seems to have died off in the last few years. And if you're prone to tinkering you can just as easily connect one through an SBC and block all traffic

babypuncher 4y ago
> I can't remember the last time I came across a public WiFi network without a captive portal that would block their attempt to phone home. Better yet, how many open WiFi networks are there around your house? For me, the answer is currently 0. People don't leave their WiFi open today like they did 15-20 years ago. Even the wireless hotspot feature on your phone makes you use WPA.
- slacka 4y ago
  > People don't leave their WiFi open Yes they do. From my 1st WRT54G to my latest AX mesh, I have never had a WiFi password. My friends and family that were visiting over the Holidays apricated it. Everyone used it, no one asked me for the password. Are people still Wardriving? Even if they are, the odds of a malicious hacker coming to my neighbored is up there with getting stuck by lightning. Not losing sleep over it. Why should I?
  - trifurcate 4y ago
    1) Besides access control, having an unencrypted WiFi network is not great because your entire internet/local traffic is open to be sniffed. High-gain antennae, etc. You are essentially screaming the contents of (what would be) your ethernet cable into the void. 2) Access control is exactly the point. I suppose you could ban the TV's MAC address from your open network (and I suppose a sufficiently malicious TV firmware could randomize its MAC address), but your stated purpose (allowing open network access) is not exactly compatible with what you presumably wish to do (disallow network access to a smart TV).
    - somat 4y ago
      Wifi encryption is the wrong layer anyway. Point to point tls is what you want to depend on. and sometimes I dream of the never realized ad-hoc ipsec connection, the actual correct layer to do encryption on. but ipsec was killed by it's own incompatible complexity, so tls is a good second best. I run an open access point and depend on tls or ssh to protect my traffic.
    - deafpolygon 4y ago
      Even more importantly, anyone can jump on the wifi and start downloading illegal software and it'd be tied to GP.
  - asdff 4y ago
    Sounds like its time for a wifi password unless you want all your neighbors smart TVs using your bandwidth to update firmware and send telemetry and download ads :)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    The amount of risk people will subject themselves to in exchange for a marginal at best increase in convenience never ceases to amaze me. There are a dozen good reasons why every piece of consumer grade networking hardware released in the past 15 years is not configured this way by default.
gigel82 4y ago
Amazon is working on things like Matter which is just turned on by default on all Alexa devices and I'm sure they'll sell access to this "backchannel" if they're not already using it. And there is precedent with Apple for example using everyone's phones to send airtag location data (enabled by default), or Xfinity / Comcast opening a second SSID (hidden or not) if you use their modem / gateway combo. You don't need to have any of those things, it's enough that your neighbors do for future "unconnected" smart TVs in your home to piggyback on.
TheHappyOddish 4y ago
I monitor my TV and it attempts all sorts of dirty tricks, calling home via HTTP on different ports, large DNS packets to random AWS IPs, all sorts of things that might work on a captive portal network.

babypuncher 4y ago

> I can't remember the last time I came across a public WiFi network without a captive portal that would block their attempt to phone home. Better yet, how many open WiFi networks are there around your house? For me, the answer is currently 0. People don't leave their WiFi open today like they did 15-20 years ago. Even the wireless hotspot feature on your phone makes you use WPA.

slacka 4y ago
> People don't leave their WiFi open Yes they do. From my 1st WRT54G to my latest AX mesh, I have never had a WiFi password. My friends and family that were visiting over the Holidays apricated it. Everyone used it, no one asked me for the password. Are people still Wardriving? Even if they are, the odds of a malicious hacker coming to my neighbored is up there with getting stuck by lightning. Not losing sleep over it. Why should I?
- trifurcate 4y ago
  1) Besides access control, having an unencrypted WiFi network is not great because your entire internet/local traffic is open to be sniffed. High-gain antennae, etc. You are essentially screaming the contents of (what would be) your ethernet cable into the void. 2) Access control is exactly the point. I suppose you could ban the TV's MAC address from your open network (and I suppose a sufficiently malicious TV firmware could randomize its MAC address), but your stated purpose (allowing open network access) is not exactly compatible with what you presumably wish to do (disallow network access to a smart TV).
  - somat 4y ago
    Wifi encryption is the wrong layer anyway. Point to point tls is what you want to depend on. and sometimes I dream of the never realized ad-hoc ipsec connection, the actual correct layer to do encryption on. but ipsec was killed by it's own incompatible complexity, so tls is a good second best. I run an open access point and depend on tls or ssh to protect my traffic.
  - deafpolygon 4y ago
    Even more importantly, anyone can jump on the wifi and start downloading illegal software and it'd be tied to GP.
- asdff 4y ago
  Sounds like its time for a wifi password unless you want all your neighbors smart TVs using your bandwidth to update firmware and send telemetry and download ads :)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- babypuncher 4y ago
  The amount of risk people will subject themselves to in exchange for a marginal at best increase in convenience never ceases to amaze me. There are a dozen good reasons why every piece of consumer grade networking hardware released in the past 15 years is not configured this way by default.

gigel82 4y ago

Amazon is working on things like Matter which is just turned on by default on all Alexa devices and I'm sure they'll sell access to this "backchannel" if they're not already using it. And there is precedent with Apple for example using everyone's phones to send airtag location data (enabled by default), or Xfinity / Comcast opening a second SSID (hidden or not) if you use their modem / gateway combo. You don't need to have any of those things, it's enough that your neighbors do for future "unconnected" smart TVs in your home to piggyback on.

TheHappyOddish 4y ago

I monitor my TV and it attempts all sorts of dirty tricks, calling home via HTTP on different ports, large DNS packets to random AWS IPs, all sorts of things that might work on a captive portal network.