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By far my biggest complaint and the #1 reason I won't buy one is Tesla's insane drive to remove almost all physical controls and lock everything behind a touch

By far my biggest complaint and the #1 reason I won't buy one is Tesla's insane drive to remove almost all physical controls and lock everything behind a touch screen interface. In cars physical buttons for many things are usually better. Period. Trying to navigate a virtual menu on a touch screen (that constantly changes via software update) to activate something like the window defrost/defog isn't just inconvenient, it's dangerous. In general the insides of the cars are far too barebones and cheap feeling. I don't get why people think them sticking a full size computer monitor in the car makes it high end. Give me refined, tactile physical buttons and controls for the features essential to safe driving and give me a cool touch screen for the other stuff. The FSD lies. Elon's crazy antics the last few years. His "leadership" and decision making at Twitter has made me second guess everything he has a hand in. The list of "why not buy" grows longer than "why buy" every day. Especially now that the rest market has caught up and there are other actual options out there. I also think plug-in hybrids are the best choice for many people right now. A 30-40 mile electric range gets most of us through our daily commutes, and you've got the gas motor for long trips so you don't need to plan charging in advance...you just get in the car and go.

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
Dedicated physical knobs and buttons are the best UI tools for most common car features (headlights, wipers, signals, stereo volume and on/off, etc, etc.). Like this previous HN discussion about touch screen menus to open glove boxes. Insanity. I would not buy a car that was centrally touch-screen controlled. Long live knobs and buttons! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33390906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33390906
ajross 4y ago
> Tesla's insane drive to remove almost all physical controls and lock everything behind a touch screen interface. I dunno, I kinda like it. Have you spent some time driving one? You might change your mind. I guess I don't quite understand the concern here. Defrost buttons aren't in a standard place anywhere, you need to hunt for them. In a Tesla you can just put it in autopilot while you do. Or you can click the (physical, heh) right thumb button on the wheel and say "Turn on Defrost". I'm not going to tell people not to hate Musk (and I'm certainly not going to defend the disaster at Twitter), but... the cars are really, really great. No, not everyone is going to like everything, but when I see stuff like "insane", "cheap", "lies", "crazy" in posts like this, I think it's pretty clear the rhetoric has gotten way too far ahead of the truth.
- ranger207 4y ago
  Once I know where the physical defrost button is, I can remember it and find it by touch easily. I can't do this if my car has a software update and moves the defrost button three menus deep on a touchscreen
  - ajross 4y ago
    This seems maybe a little unserious? People enter the drivers seats of unfamiliar cars, what, maybe two or three orders of magnitude more often than Tesla makes significant changes to the in-car UI (twice in the last ~6 years or thereabouts). Do you express similar concerns over the serious safety issues in the human factors interaction involved in defrost actuation on rental cars?
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    If you actually hit defrost by touch, you'd be in a small minority of drivers. Most drivers instinctively look down to ensure they hit the right button. Most probably could operate it by touch, but they don't. Only the buttons on the wheel or stalks are operated without looking.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      With a touch screen, there is no physical feedback until you touch the screen, and that feedback is "you've touched a screen." With a button, even if you look once to confirm its location, there's physical feedback of "you're touching the button and not the edge between two buttons", "you've depressed the button" and "you've released the button". The difference in physical feedback means the difference between looking and watching - and the time required to watch your finger interact with a virtual button and verifying that the interaction was registered.
    - seattle_spring 4y ago
      Somewhat meta: this post has a lot of comments that just assume that one's own experience is automatically representative of the majority.
- 4y ago
mdeeks 4y ago
While I agree it definitely needs some buttons for things, a counterpoint to that is other car makers have gone WAY too far with buttons and dials. I mean look at this hideous Macan design: https://di-uploads-pod17.dealerinspire.com/porschewoodlandhills/uploads/2020/11/2021-Macan.png https://di-uploads-pod17.dealerinspire.com/porschewoodlandhi... . Every button looks and feels the same. You have to look down to find the button you want. There are something like 30 buttons there. I also hated my Audi. The display is filled with garbage I don't care about. I do not care in the slightest about my engine RPM and yet it takes up almost half of the display. But that is just visual. A lot of the physical buttons still felt the same and were next to each other so you had to look down to find it and change something. Most people sitting in the car couldn't figure it out, but had little trouble figuring out the Tesla display Most of the time I prefer the touch screen on our Model Y but there are some things that BADLY need a physical controls: * Defrost/defog/AC * Wipers (the Auto mode is hilariously terrible) * The god damn glove box * The back seat lights (I have kids and need to look back there often)
- falcolas 4y ago
  > I do not care in the slightest about my engine RPM and yet it takes up almost half of the display. Kinda meta, but this sentence was trippy AF to read. Engine RPM is something quite valuable to me as a driver, even in my CVT automatic subaru. It's a direct link to the heart of the engine - to know how hard I'm pushing it. It's still possible to redline an engine (especially in an Audi), and knowing how close you are is important. It's especially important in winter, since not paying attention to your engine's RPMs when you're trying to get un-stuck is a great way to start a car fire.
  - mdeeks 4y ago
    I suspect you're somewhat unique. I can't think of a single time in the past decade I have looked at my RPM and cared. I doubt a large majority of people care either. In any case I don't think it needs to be a massive round dial the size of my fist. It could be a small bar next to a text only MPH/KPH display that goes up and turns red.

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago

Dedicated physical knobs and buttons are the best UI tools for most common car features (headlights, wipers, signals, stereo volume and on/off, etc, etc.). Like this previous HN discussion about touch screen menus to open glove boxes. Insanity. I would not buy a car that was centrally touch-screen controlled. Long live knobs and buttons! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33390906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33390906

ajross 4y ago

> Tesla's insane drive to remove almost all physical controls and lock everything behind a touch screen interface. I dunno, I kinda like it. Have you spent some time driving one? You might change your mind. I guess I don't quite understand the concern here. Defrost buttons aren't in a standard place anywhere, you need to hunt for them. In a Tesla you can just put it in autopilot while you do. Or you can click the (physical, heh) right thumb button on the wheel and say "Turn on Defrost". I'm not going to tell people not to hate Musk (and I'm certainly not going to defend the disaster at Twitter), but... the cars are really, really great. No, not everyone is going to like everything, but when I see stuff like "insane", "cheap", "lies", "crazy" in posts like this, I think it's pretty clear the rhetoric has gotten way too far ahead of the truth.

ranger207 4y ago
Once I know where the physical defrost button is, I can remember it and find it by touch easily. I can't do this if my car has a software update and moves the defrost button three menus deep on a touchscreen
- ajross 4y ago
  This seems maybe a little unserious? People enter the drivers seats of unfamiliar cars, what, maybe two or three orders of magnitude more often than Tesla makes significant changes to the in-car UI (twice in the last ~6 years or thereabouts). Do you express similar concerns over the serious safety issues in the human factors interaction involved in defrost actuation on rental cars?
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  If you actually hit defrost by touch, you'd be in a small minority of drivers. Most drivers instinctively look down to ensure they hit the right button. Most probably could operate it by touch, but they don't. Only the buttons on the wheel or stalks are operated without looking.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    With a touch screen, there is no physical feedback until you touch the screen, and that feedback is "you've touched a screen." With a button, even if you look once to confirm its location, there's physical feedback of "you're touching the button and not the edge between two buttons", "you've depressed the button" and "you've released the button". The difference in physical feedback means the difference between looking and watching - and the time required to watch your finger interact with a virtual button and verifying that the interaction was registered.
  - seattle_spring 4y ago
    Somewhat meta: this post has a lot of comments that just assume that one's own experience is automatically representative of the majority.
4y ago

mdeeks 4y ago

While I agree it definitely needs some buttons for things, a counterpoint to that is other car makers have gone WAY too far with buttons and dials. I mean look at this hideous Macan design: https://di-uploads-pod17.dealerinspire.com/porschewoodlandhills/uploads/2020/11/2021-Macan.png https://di-uploads-pod17.dealerinspire.com/porschewoodlandhi... . Every button looks and feels the same. You have to look down to find the button you want. There are something like 30 buttons there. I also hated my Audi. The display is filled with garbage I don't care about. I do not care in the slightest about my engine RPM and yet it takes up almost half of the display. But that is just visual. A lot of the physical buttons still felt the same and were next to each other so you had to look down to find it and change something. Most people sitting in the car couldn't figure it out, but had little trouble figuring out the Tesla display Most of the time I prefer the touch screen on our Model Y but there are some things that BADLY need a physical controls: * Defrost/defog/AC * Wipers (the Auto mode is hilariously terrible) * The god damn glove box * The back seat lights (I have kids and need to look back there often)

falcolas 4y ago
> I do not care in the slightest about my engine RPM and yet it takes up almost half of the display. Kinda meta, but this sentence was trippy AF to read. Engine RPM is something quite valuable to me as a driver, even in my CVT automatic subaru. It's a direct link to the heart of the engine - to know how hard I'm pushing it. It's still possible to redline an engine (especially in an Audi), and knowing how close you are is important. It's especially important in winter, since not paying attention to your engine's RPMs when you're trying to get un-stuck is a great way to start a car fire.
- mdeeks 4y ago
  I suspect you're somewhat unique. I can't think of a single time in the past decade I have looked at my RPM and cared. I doubt a large majority of people care either. In any case I don't think it needs to be a massive round dial the size of my fist. It could be a small bar next to a text only MPH/KPH display that goes up and turns red.