5 ms·

Ok, so when do historical victims stop being victims and stop being treated like victims?

Mezzie 4y ago
This is a fascinating question because we're in a transitionary period. Like my mother, who is very much alive and still working, was 100% a victim of sexism: She was alive in and grew up in times where she couldn't have a credit card or mortgage, when jobs were sex-segregated, and wasn't allowed to go to college to be an engineer like her brother because she was raised to stay at home and pop out babies. (She bailed at 15 instead of conforming.) On the other hand, that's very different from the experience of a woman born in 2003. They're both adult parts of society. And that's without getting into the experiences of women in their 30s and 40s which, depending on where they grew up, could go either way.
- luckylion 4y ago
  What makes that super weird for me is the inheritance by gender. I get reparations, e.g. for enslaving people. In its simplest form, you break it down to "should have been paid instead" and make that a claim that can be inherited. There are arguments about collective guilt and claims against collectives etc, but that's a second step. But women aren't an ethnic group. Children are pretty much a 50/50 split between male and female. Those claims (for reparations, and extra privileges because other women elsewhere in a different century were disadvantaged) are very different, and make no sense to me, at all.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    That is a really interesting perspective. Even if you buy into intergenerational guilt and benefit for groups, each new generation (without exception) must come from both groups.
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    I agree that reparations make no sense for sex based oppression historically. The only/main type of reparations I might agree with is something like extra social security for women of an age where they were legally prevented from earning more. (You can't turn around and tell a 65+ year old woman she should have chosen a higher earning career if you didn't let her). Or providing state support to child brides (I'd also support this for minor males married to of age females). Then again, I think reparations in general are a terrible idea. It's just interesting because our society is moving so quickly that you have some people alive who genuinely were personally oppressed and some in the same group who weren't.
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      There was indeed a case in Iowa where the female babysitter assaulted the minor male under her care, became pregnant by him, and the court ordered him to pay child support
      - Mezzie 4y ago
        Yeah, I heard about that. Talk about fucked up! She should be paying for his therapy.

This is a fascinating question because we're in a transitionary period. Like my mother, who is very much alive and still working, was 100% a victim of sexism: She was alive in and grew up in times where she couldn't have a credit card or mortgage, when jobs were sex-segregated, and wasn't allowed to go to college to be an engineer like her brother because she was raised to stay at home and pop out babies. (She bailed at 15 instead of conforming.) On the other hand, that's very different from the experience of a woman born in 2003. They're both adult parts of society. And that's without getting into the experiences of women in their 30s and 40s which, depending on where they grew up, could go either way.

luckylion 4y ago
What makes that super weird for me is the inheritance by gender. I get reparations, e.g. for enslaving people. In its simplest form, you break it down to "should have been paid instead" and make that a claim that can be inherited. There are arguments about collective guilt and claims against collectives etc, but that's a second step. But women aren't an ethnic group. Children are pretty much a 50/50 split between male and female. Those claims (for reparations, and extra privileges because other women elsewhere in a different century were disadvantaged) are very different, and make no sense to me, at all.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  That is a really interesting perspective. Even if you buy into intergenerational guilt and benefit for groups, each new generation (without exception) must come from both groups.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  I agree that reparations make no sense for sex based oppression historically. The only/main type of reparations I might agree with is something like extra social security for women of an age where they were legally prevented from earning more. (You can't turn around and tell a 65+ year old woman she should have chosen a higher earning career if you didn't let her). Or providing state support to child brides (I'd also support this for minor males married to of age females). Then again, I think reparations in general are a terrible idea. It's just interesting because our society is moving so quickly that you have some people alive who genuinely were personally oppressed and some in the same group who weren't.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    There was indeed a case in Iowa where the female babysitter assaulted the minor male under her care, became pregnant by him, and the court ordered him to pay child support
    - Mezzie 4y ago
      Yeah, I heard about that. Talk about fucked up! She should be paying for his therapy.