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man I am so happy i heard someone else say it too. I seriously felt like "society had no interest in me". Not being able to find a job and getting no matches on

man I am so happy i heard someone else say it too. I seriously felt like "society had no interest in me". Not being able to find a job and getting no matches on things like tinder left me devastated. I am on anti depressants and fear that time to this day.

JKCalhoun 4y ago
> I seriously felt like "society had no interest in me". I'm pretty sure society is not obligated to have an interest in you (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth however). I think you become truly actualized only when you decide what it is you want, what you imagine for yourself. If what you want is in conflict with what society wants of you, you have to decide then whether it is important enough to you to take the road less travelled. Watching biographies of various artistic people ("The Art Life" about David Lynch comes to mind, also "Crumb") it's clear that some people are just "a certain way" and will choose to live that way - society be damned. (Of course, that there are documentaries about these luminaries tells you that a few at least have found societal acceptance after all.)
- drc500free 4y ago
  I found this video, "Edgelord Movies and the Men who Love Them " [1] by sociologist F.D Signifier, to be a particularly interesting exploration of this specific disappointment. His thesis is that young white men are more attracted to edgelord movies like Joker, Falling Down, American Psycho, or Fight Club that portray a sudden violent break from social norms because they start with an elevated expectation of how society will cater to them that gets shattered one day. The idea of a protagonist that lashes out and punishes "the system" through stochastic violence is very attractive. Young non-white men are less likely to be under the impression that society is looking out for them in the first place, so their choice of anti-social entertainment looks very different. It's more about detachment and the use of violence for personal enrichment because the social system doesn't matter. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_--JOjsTHjo&t=361s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_--JOjsTHjo&t=361s
  - annyeonghada 4y ago
    This is just the usual pseudo-academical sneer again white males to say that everything that happens to them it's their fault. No white male that I know - and considering the suicide rates, no statistically significant portion of white males - has ever had the impression that someone looked out for them: this starting in kindergarten where "teachers" made very clear that females were preferred.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- whatshisface 4y ago
  There's a basic human need to be valued by others and to be part of a community, and the system we have now grades people according to traits that are mainly genetic and casts them aside if they aren't seen as desirable enough. As for what the cut is, well, it's many-faceted, but the waterline is rising and as you age all of your desirable traits are fading. If you have real personal relationships (either career or friendship-related) you've escaped it for now, but if anything ever happens to reset your network and cast you back into the default pot, you might get a chance to experience it.
  - WhiteBlueSkies 4y ago
    You know it's always the intellectuals who fret so much about life. I've seen construction workers succesfully dating and being happy and enjoying life. Maybe we overthink things too much. We'll be fine.
    - annyeonghada 4y ago
      Your lived experience is irrelevant. Statistical trends are.
      - WhiteBlueSkies 4y ago
        No, it's not truth is on the streets and not on your spreadsheets. Life is to be lived and not thought of. If you consult statistical trends there's no reason for anyone ever to even feel any amount of joy. Either the economy is in collapse or headed towards a collapse. Either you are healthy and thus headed for illness or ill already.
  - lazide 4y ago
    When has that ever NOT been the case?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - 4y ago
- luckylion 4y ago
  > I'm pretty sure society is not obligated to have an interest in you It somewhat stops being a society if it says to some members "whether you live or die is irrelevant to me, I will not care either way". That's what some people experience at least some of the time. There's a social contract. Is it still binding you if society doesn't hold up its end?
  - lazide 4y ago
    If society feels like it wants it to, it’s hard to evade the various means of enforcement society has created and funded for the purpose.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      That's true, and I don't think society will say "we've let you down but in return you don't owe taxes". I meant to ask more about the ethics. Should you feel obligated to uphold your end if the other side does not?
      - lazide 4y ago
        Practically, does it matter if the other side has guns and doesn’t care what the person thinks? (Ethically, of course, spherical cows and all, there are many ways to discuss it - but why?)
        luckylion 4y ago
        Society doesn't function because of law enforcement (and the threat of violence by the state), it functions because the super majority doesn't break the laws. If the social contract breaks away, you can have an army but you can't run a modern society on threats, or you'll exhaust the resources by government watchmen, and you'll end up with 10% in society being productive and the rest watching them and each other.
        lazide 4y ago
- hatefulmoron 4y ago
  > I'm pretty sure society is not obligated to have an interest in you I have grown to believe over time that this is true, and that most people are willing to throw away unsuccessful or unlucky others using this reasoning. It's depressing, but also frees you from feeling any particular obligation to society. If society doesn't either provide you with what you need or a means to achieve it, I recommend that you cheat, steal, tax-evade, and law-break as much as is personally beneficial.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Be aware, that then opens you up to being directly attacked by, and not just ignored, by society. And society has lots of fangs, in that sense.
    - hatefulmoron 4y ago
      That's merely a practical consideration. Besides, the difference between "ignored" and "directly attacked by" is mostly rhetorical when your psychological or physiological needs are unmet.
      - lazide 4y ago
        Hah, ‘merely practical’ is high praise for a concern IMO? It does matter. Plenty of subcultures have done stuff that is technically illegal, or at least could be prosecuted/or would be made illegal if noticed, but was quite beneficial to them in their own view, by not getting enough attention to be worth directly attacking! Or having folks be distracted enough elsewhere to not go after them. I’m guessing most in the LGBTQ space can pretty clearly identify the difference between the two, for instance. Being accepted being even nicer than both, of course. Catered to almost unheard of!
        hatefulmoron 4y ago
        > Hah, ‘merely practical’ is high praise for a concern IMO? I'm not sure that you're following exactly what I mean. I'm saying that once any ethical barrier involving 'obligation' to society is overcome, it's a problem to be calculated like any else. What are the risks, what are the returns. As for the second part, it doesn't matter when the result is the same. I don't care if I'm being persecuted or ignored when my life is still shit. I'm not willing to sit on my hands under some false belief that turning the other cheek is pious when the only life I'll ever live is slipping through my fingers.
commandlinefan 4y ago
> Not being able to find a job and getting no matches on things like tinder I never personally experienced this (I've always been employed since graduation and I got married before there was tinder), but it still always feels like a gut punch to read that other people experienced it.

JKCalhoun 4y ago

> I seriously felt like "society had no interest in me". I'm pretty sure society is not obligated to have an interest in you (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth however). I think you become truly actualized only when you decide what it is you want, what you imagine for yourself. If what you want is in conflict with what society wants of you, you have to decide then whether it is important enough to you to take the road less travelled. Watching biographies of various artistic people ("The Art Life" about David Lynch comes to mind, also "Crumb") it's clear that some people are just "a certain way" and will choose to live that way - society be damned. (Of course, that there are documentaries about these luminaries tells you that a few at least have found societal acceptance after all.)

drc500free 4y ago
I found this video, "Edgelord Movies and the Men who Love Them " [1] by sociologist F.D Signifier, to be a particularly interesting exploration of this specific disappointment. His thesis is that young white men are more attracted to edgelord movies like Joker, Falling Down, American Psycho, or Fight Club that portray a sudden violent break from social norms because they start with an elevated expectation of how society will cater to them that gets shattered one day. The idea of a protagonist that lashes out and punishes "the system" through stochastic violence is very attractive. Young non-white men are less likely to be under the impression that society is looking out for them in the first place, so their choice of anti-social entertainment looks very different. It's more about detachment and the use of violence for personal enrichment because the social system doesn't matter. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_--JOjsTHjo&t=361s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_--JOjsTHjo&t=361s
- annyeonghada 4y ago
  This is just the usual pseudo-academical sneer again white males to say that everything that happens to them it's their fault. No white male that I know - and considering the suicide rates, no statistically significant portion of white males - has ever had the impression that someone looked out for them: this starting in kindergarten where "teachers" made very clear that females were preferred.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
whatshisface 4y ago
There's a basic human need to be valued by others and to be part of a community, and the system we have now grades people according to traits that are mainly genetic and casts them aside if they aren't seen as desirable enough. As for what the cut is, well, it's many-faceted, but the waterline is rising and as you age all of your desirable traits are fading. If you have real personal relationships (either career or friendship-related) you've escaped it for now, but if anything ever happens to reset your network and cast you back into the default pot, you might get a chance to experience it.
- WhiteBlueSkies 4y ago
  You know it's always the intellectuals who fret so much about life. I've seen construction workers succesfully dating and being happy and enjoying life. Maybe we overthink things too much. We'll be fine.
  - annyeonghada 4y ago
    Your lived experience is irrelevant. Statistical trends are.
    - WhiteBlueSkies 4y ago
      No, it's not truth is on the streets and not on your spreadsheets. Life is to be lived and not thought of. If you consult statistical trends there's no reason for anyone ever to even feel any amount of joy. Either the economy is in collapse or headed towards a collapse. Either you are healthy and thus headed for illness or ill already.
- lazide 4y ago
  When has that ever NOT been the case?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - 4y ago
luckylion 4y ago
> I'm pretty sure society is not obligated to have an interest in you It somewhat stops being a society if it says to some members "whether you live or die is irrelevant to me, I will not care either way". That's what some people experience at least some of the time. There's a social contract. Is it still binding you if society doesn't hold up its end?
- lazide 4y ago
  If society feels like it wants it to, it’s hard to evade the various means of enforcement society has created and funded for the purpose.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    That's true, and I don't think society will say "we've let you down but in return you don't owe taxes". I meant to ask more about the ethics. Should you feel obligated to uphold your end if the other side does not?
    - lazide 4y ago
      Practically, does it matter if the other side has guns and doesn’t care what the person thinks? (Ethically, of course, spherical cows and all, there are many ways to discuss it - but why?)
      - luckylion 4y ago
        Society doesn't function because of law enforcement (and the threat of violence by the state), it functions because the super majority doesn't break the laws. If the social contract breaks away, you can have an army but you can't run a modern society on threats, or you'll exhaust the resources by government watchmen, and you'll end up with 10% in society being productive and the rest watching them and each other.
        lazide 4y ago
hatefulmoron 4y ago
> I'm pretty sure society is not obligated to have an interest in you I have grown to believe over time that this is true, and that most people are willing to throw away unsuccessful or unlucky others using this reasoning. It's depressing, but also frees you from feeling any particular obligation to society. If society doesn't either provide you with what you need or a means to achieve it, I recommend that you cheat, steal, tax-evade, and law-break as much as is personally beneficial.
- lazide 4y ago
  Be aware, that then opens you up to being directly attacked by, and not just ignored, by society. And society has lots of fangs, in that sense.
  - hatefulmoron 4y ago
    That's merely a practical consideration. Besides, the difference between "ignored" and "directly attacked by" is mostly rhetorical when your psychological or physiological needs are unmet.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Hah, ‘merely practical’ is high praise for a concern IMO? It does matter. Plenty of subcultures have done stuff that is technically illegal, or at least could be prosecuted/or would be made illegal if noticed, but was quite beneficial to them in their own view, by not getting enough attention to be worth directly attacking! Or having folks be distracted enough elsewhere to not go after them. I’m guessing most in the LGBTQ space can pretty clearly identify the difference between the two, for instance. Being accepted being even nicer than both, of course. Catered to almost unheard of!
      - hatefulmoron 4y ago
        > Hah, ‘merely practical’ is high praise for a concern IMO? I'm not sure that you're following exactly what I mean. I'm saying that once any ethical barrier involving 'obligation' to society is overcome, it's a problem to be calculated like any else. What are the risks, what are the returns. As for the second part, it doesn't matter when the result is the same. I don't care if I'm being persecuted or ignored when my life is still shit. I'm not willing to sit on my hands under some false belief that turning the other cheek is pious when the only life I'll ever live is slipping through my fingers.

commandlinefan 4y ago

> Not being able to find a job and getting no matches on things like tinder I never personally experienced this (I've always been employed since graduation and I got married before there was tinder), but it still always feels like a gut punch to read that other people experienced it.