10 ms·

I can't help but wonder how this can ever be a good idea. The government shouldn't be telling you how to live your life, sure. But that doesn't change reality

I can't help but wonder how this can ever be a good idea. The government shouldn't be telling you how to live your life, sure. But that doesn't change reality that the vast majority of people out there are not qualified to make a medical assessment for themselves about the severity of synthetic substances (and many naturally occurring substances as well)f It feels like the culture of family and community is steadily being eroded in the United States in favor of liberalization at any cost.

Zigurd 4y ago
There are harmful and dangerous drugs. But the harm caused by the moral panic over psychedelics, and the expansive, unselective Drug War has caused far more damage. We now have a legacy of militarized policing, military-style raids on homes, and widespread neonazi ideologies and brownshirt gangs in police departments. We have privatized prisons. Predictably, that led to corruption in prosecutors and judges to fill those prisons. Predictably, too, police culture is one of violence: High rates of domestic violence among police is one of the pillars of the kind of cultural rot exemplified and spread by Andrew Tate. The real problems are not that we lack a "culture of family and community" but that, based partly on the Drug War and partly on white Christian nationalism, we have a culture of brutality.
pstuart 4y ago
You know that many psychiatric medications come with the risk of suicide ideation? And that every time a new scrip goes out it's an educated guess? People should have the right to treat themselves as best they can. Finally, if you look into the history of the War on Drugs, you'll find that the basis of it was oppression of classes of people, not safety.
- DisjointedHunt 4y ago
  Why would you take what i've said as defending psychiatric medications or their side effects? I'm saying the same thing. It appears irresponsible to resort to substances that affect your behavior in non deterministic ways to fix a perceived problem. A child with the privilege of growing up in a good community, tends to have better outcomes and socio economic problems don't have solutions at the end of a needle.
  - pstuart 4y ago
    > It appears irresponsible to resort to substances that affect your behavior in non deterministic ways to fix a perceived problem. While I slagged pharma solutions I also acknowledge that they have value too. Our brains are biochemical machines and sometimes the chemistry needs a tweak. When done right it's life changing. > A child with the privilege of growing up in a good community And those that don't? > don't have solutions at the end of a needle That's quite a leap.
    - DisjointedHunt 4y ago
      Instead of parsing isolated sentences like someone without the capacity to connect them, try reading the whole thing and reflecting on the meaning before responding to independent quotes without context.
      - pstuart 4y ago
        Well you packed quite a bit in there and there and I got lazy. But my points stand. Medication can be valuable for mental health, but there are risks. While there are abuses of this, it still doesn't discount the value for those it does help. Psychedelics/Ketamine/MDMA are showing great promise in therapeutic contexts and it's about time they are allowed to be used. They also can be enjoyed recreationally (and also abused), but again, that doesn't discount the legitimate medicinal use of them. Your approach seemed to be that people just need to be born in the right community and upbringing and have a good life and everything will be all right. The War on Drugs has been a catastrophic failure and attitudes such as yours support the continuation of that mistake.
kgwxd 4y ago
I have a great family, live in a great community, and do mushrooms about once a month. Conservatives don't have exclusive rights to the definitions of family and community.
- DisjointedHunt 4y ago
  Good for you. How about the meth head downtown sleeping in his own shit and piss? Great ending, right? Too bad he's too stupid to make the right decisions. Or maybe you're saying he made HIS decision, so fuck him anyway.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - notch656c 4y ago
    Freedom means having the ability to fuck up your own life. Having a kid means I end up with piss and shit on me and wear out my body faster yet society seems to think that's fine. I realize that's entirely different but I'm not really interested in being in the business of how you want to harm your own health.
    - DisjointedHunt 4y ago
      Freedom and anarchy are not the same thing.
  - beej71 4y ago
    Meth and shrooms are about as related as meth and coffee.
  - seanw444 4y ago
    Yeah, he made his decision. What's your point?
  - sowbug 4y ago
    Maybe we should make meth illegal.
throwaway4aday 4y ago
Addiction and excessive use are the only things about drugs, including alcohol, that tend to break apart family and community. If there's no stigma attached to occasional and social use of psychedelics or other drugs then I don't see how they would negatively impact family and community any more than occasional use of alcohol does. I agree that some people will suffer negative consequences from drug use but upon close examination of those cases it's very rarely the drug itself that is the source of the trouble. People abuse drugs in order to escape otherwise inescapable situations in their lives, if every day you wake up to misery and pain then taking a pain killer or dissociative is the easiest way to escape that and often the only way if the person has no family, community or healthcare support.
jobs_throwaway 4y ago
This is some nanny-state bullshit. You should not be able to impose your idea of 'culture of family and community' on others when there is overwhelming evidence that these substances are less harmful and addictive than other already legal drugs like alcohol and nicotine.
cnelsenmilt 4y ago
> people out there are not qualified to make a medical assessment for themselves about the severity of synthetic substances You'll be pleased to hear then that the law we're discussing requires trained supervision: https://www.opb.org/article/2022/12/27/oregon-trains-psilocybin-facilitators/ https://www.opb.org/article/2022/12/27/oregon-trains-psilocy...

Zigurd 4y ago

There are harmful and dangerous drugs. But the harm caused by the moral panic over psychedelics, and the expansive, unselective Drug War has caused far more damage. We now have a legacy of militarized policing, military-style raids on homes, and widespread neonazi ideologies and brownshirt gangs in police departments. We have privatized prisons. Predictably, that led to corruption in prosecutors and judges to fill those prisons. Predictably, too, police culture is one of violence: High rates of domestic violence among police is one of the pillars of the kind of cultural rot exemplified and spread by Andrew Tate. The real problems are not that we lack a "culture of family and community" but that, based partly on the Drug War and partly on white Christian nationalism, we have a culture of brutality.

pstuart 4y ago

You know that many psychiatric medications come with the risk of suicide ideation? And that every time a new scrip goes out it's an educated guess? People should have the right to treat themselves as best they can. Finally, if you look into the history of the War on Drugs, you'll find that the basis of it was oppression of classes of people, not safety.

DisjointedHunt 4y ago
Why would you take what i've said as defending psychiatric medications or their side effects? I'm saying the same thing. It appears irresponsible to resort to substances that affect your behavior in non deterministic ways to fix a perceived problem. A child with the privilege of growing up in a good community, tends to have better outcomes and socio economic problems don't have solutions at the end of a needle.
- pstuart 4y ago
  > It appears irresponsible to resort to substances that affect your behavior in non deterministic ways to fix a perceived problem. While I slagged pharma solutions I also acknowledge that they have value too. Our brains are biochemical machines and sometimes the chemistry needs a tweak. When done right it's life changing. > A child with the privilege of growing up in a good community And those that don't? > don't have solutions at the end of a needle That's quite a leap.
  - DisjointedHunt 4y ago
    Instead of parsing isolated sentences like someone without the capacity to connect them, try reading the whole thing and reflecting on the meaning before responding to independent quotes without context.
    - pstuart 4y ago
      Well you packed quite a bit in there and there and I got lazy. But my points stand. Medication can be valuable for mental health, but there are risks. While there are abuses of this, it still doesn't discount the value for those it does help. Psychedelics/Ketamine/MDMA are showing great promise in therapeutic contexts and it's about time they are allowed to be used. They also can be enjoyed recreationally (and also abused), but again, that doesn't discount the legitimate medicinal use of them. Your approach seemed to be that people just need to be born in the right community and upbringing and have a good life and everything will be all right. The War on Drugs has been a catastrophic failure and attitudes such as yours support the continuation of that mistake.

kgwxd 4y ago

I have a great family, live in a great community, and do mushrooms about once a month. Conservatives don't have exclusive rights to the definitions of family and community.

DisjointedHunt 4y ago
Good for you. How about the meth head downtown sleeping in his own shit and piss? Great ending, right? Too bad he's too stupid to make the right decisions. Or maybe you're saying he made HIS decision, so fuck him anyway.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- notch656c 4y ago
  Freedom means having the ability to fuck up your own life. Having a kid means I end up with piss and shit on me and wear out my body faster yet society seems to think that's fine. I realize that's entirely different but I'm not really interested in being in the business of how you want to harm your own health.
  - DisjointedHunt 4y ago
    Freedom and anarchy are not the same thing.
- beej71 4y ago
  Meth and shrooms are about as related as meth and coffee.
- seanw444 4y ago
  Yeah, he made his decision. What's your point?
- sowbug 4y ago
  Maybe we should make meth illegal.

throwaway4aday 4y ago

Addiction and excessive use are the only things about drugs, including alcohol, that tend to break apart family and community. If there's no stigma attached to occasional and social use of psychedelics or other drugs then I don't see how they would negatively impact family and community any more than occasional use of alcohol does. I agree that some people will suffer negative consequences from drug use but upon close examination of those cases it's very rarely the drug itself that is the source of the trouble. People abuse drugs in order to escape otherwise inescapable situations in their lives, if every day you wake up to misery and pain then taking a pain killer or dissociative is the easiest way to escape that and often the only way if the person has no family, community or healthcare support.

jobs_throwaway 4y ago

This is some nanny-state bullshit. You should not be able to impose your idea of 'culture of family and community' on others when there is overwhelming evidence that these substances are less harmful and addictive than other already legal drugs like alcohol and nicotine.

cnelsenmilt 4y ago

> people out there are not qualified to make a medical assessment for themselves about the severity of synthetic substances You'll be pleased to hear then that the law we're discussing requires trained supervision: https://www.opb.org/article/2022/12/27/oregon-trains-psilocybin-facilitators/ https://www.opb.org/article/2022/12/27/oregon-trains-psilocy...