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The assertion that TDD is a solution to dynamic typing falls apart when you consider that the TDD dogma was born out of Java programmers. I won't argue that Jav

by ollien 4y ago

The assertion that TDD is a solution to dynamic typing falls apart when you consider that the TDD dogma was born out of Java programmers. I won't argue that Java has the most expressive type system, but it _is_ statically typed.

Guid_NewGuid 4y ago
My understanding is that it's kind of a 3-pronged thing, It originates (or is "rediscovered") by Kent Beck working in, at-the-time, Smalltalk. It has huge adoption in the RonR community. And lastly the usual Java suspects who never met a bad pattern they couldn't massively overadopt, e.g. the so-called "Uncle" Bob who never met a pattern he couldn't jam into code to overcomplicate it.
- ollien 4y ago
  You know, I knew there was a major association between TDD and XP (wonder why!) and I had always heard of XP being Java related, but looking deeper I'm not sure that's has true as I thought
- hbrn 4y ago
  > It has huge adoption in the RonR community Is that even true? DHH (RoR creator) hates TDD.
  - Guid_NewGuid 4y ago
    It's been hard to find a timeline or more general history of TDD and I should have probably used the word "had" above. But my understanding is RSpec[0] was a huge driver of the test driven development hype cycle. While DHH[1] has, as of 2014, come out against TDD and was probably never 100% on-board he is not the whole community and that's still a gap of 9 years where, in my understanding, it was broadly popularised as both "the way you should be doing things in Rails" and, as with most things in Rails "the way everyone should be doing things". [0]: https://www.stevenrbaker.com/tech/history-of-rspec.html https://www.stevenrbaker.com/tech/history-of-rspec.html [1]: https://dhh.dk/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing https://dhh.dk/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing
randomdata 4y ago
Not to mention that before TDD the same documentation was provided as plain text. TDD simply realized that if the documentation was also executable that the implementation could be automatically validated for compliance against the documentation. The idea that you are reconstructing the compiler doesn't even track on the surface. It is true that one may use testing to stand in for the lack of static typing, which is no dobut what the parent is talking about, but TDD != Testing. Testing long predates TDD.

by ollien 4y ago

Guid_NewGuid 4y ago

My understanding is that it's kind of a 3-pronged thing, It originates (or is "rediscovered") by Kent Beck working in, at-the-time, Smalltalk. It has huge adoption in the RonR community. And lastly the usual Java suspects who never met a bad pattern they couldn't massively overadopt, e.g. the so-called "Uncle" Bob who never met a pattern he couldn't jam into code to overcomplicate it.

ollien 4y ago
You know, I knew there was a major association between TDD and XP (wonder why!) and I had always heard of XP being Java related, but looking deeper I'm not sure that's has true as I thought
hbrn 4y ago
> It has huge adoption in the RonR community Is that even true? DHH (RoR creator) hates TDD.
- Guid_NewGuid 4y ago
  It's been hard to find a timeline or more general history of TDD and I should have probably used the word "had" above. But my understanding is RSpec[0] was a huge driver of the test driven development hype cycle. While DHH[1] has, as of 2014, come out against TDD and was probably never 100% on-board he is not the whole community and that's still a gap of 9 years where, in my understanding, it was broadly popularised as both "the way you should be doing things in Rails" and, as with most things in Rails "the way everyone should be doing things". [0]: https://www.stevenrbaker.com/tech/history-of-rspec.html https://www.stevenrbaker.com/tech/history-of-rspec.html [1]: https://dhh.dk/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing https://dhh.dk/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing

randomdata 4y ago

Not to mention that before TDD the same documentation was provided as plain text. TDD simply realized that if the documentation was also executable that the implementation could be automatically validated for compliance against the documentation. The idea that you are reconstructing the compiler doesn't even track on the surface. It is true that one may use testing to stand in for the lack of static typing, which is no dobut what the parent is talking about, but TDD != Testing. Testing long predates TDD.