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With "many", I'm actually talking about a majority here in Germany. Stiftung Warentest, Markt, Frontal 21 and similar media are extremely popular. Stiftung Ware

With "many", I'm actually talking about a majority here in Germany. Stiftung Warentest, Markt, Frontal 21 and similar media are extremely popular. Stiftung Warentest alone has a revenue of over 63 million a year. [1] The consumer magazine NDR Markt had the highest TV ratings of any show in recent years (excluding evening news and special covid news updates), with a market reach of 13.4% in the broadcast area. [2] That's not even counting WDR Markt which has even better ratings. > so far outside the range of normality in the population that it does not matter That's where you're provably wrong. That said, there are bad actors in this market too – especially around the Check24 group (annual revenue exceeding 500 million in 2021) and other actors, which are ranking products less by quality or trustworthy test reports, but instead based on who pays more for ads (see also: Google Shopping). The EU New Deal For Consumers is actually going to influence this quite a bit. The EU plans to regulate comparison sites more strictly, as comparison sites will have a more important role in a future with more restricted, and overall less prevalent advertising. (See also [3], [4]) ________________ [1] https://www.test.de/unternehmen/stiftung-5017075-5843365/ https://www.test.de/unternehmen/stiftung-5017075-5843365/ [2] https://www.ndr.de/der_ndr/zahlen_und_daten/NDR-Fernsehen-Die-erfolgreichsten-Sendungen-2021,ndrdaten147.html https://www.ndr.de/der_ndr/zahlen_und_daten/NDR-Fernsehen-Di... [3] https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/DE/Pressemitteilungen/2019/11_04_2019_Vergleichsportale_Bericht.html?nn=3591286 https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/DE/Presse... [4] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/vergleichsportale-kontrollen-1.4318845 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/vergleichsportale-kon...

satvikpendem 4y ago
We have organizations like Consumer Reports here too in the US, they also make a large amount of money, but that doesn't mean that most people make their purchasing decisions from such organizations. I guarantee if you did some sort of study, most would say they made a primary purchasing decision via advertising.
- kuschku 4y ago
  According to a GfK Study from April 2021, asking 1001 Germans between 18 and 74, the largest influences on purchasing decisions were: - personal recommendations from friends (35,5%) - independent comparison tests (30,5%) - amazon reviews (23,2%) - media reports (13,7%) - corporate information, including advertising (10,0%)
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    Many of those can include advertising, such as Amazon placement and reviews, media reports (many PR firms exist to push your product onto media outlets), personal recommendations, and even independent comparison tests (people see an ad, and research it more thoroughly including seeing how it fares on comparison tests, and perhaps tell their friends too). I am not saying that the tests themselves are not independent, nor that people don't use them to make purchasing decisions, but the prevalence of advertising is such that you cannot disentangle its influence from every other. Clearly, even in Germany, ads exist, and if they did not work, then the ads would not exist.
    - kuschku 4y ago
      > such as Amazon […] reviews > many PR firms exist to push your product onto media outlets > personal recommendations Half of that is fraud, the other half is at least unethical. Reviews may only be the personal opinion of people who provably purchased the product. False reviews are fraud and explicitly a criminal act. Placing ads in media without explicitly marking it clearly and obviously an ad, so-called “native advertising”, is explicitly a criminal act. > the prevalence of advertising is such that you cannot disentangle its influence from every other. My original argument was that advertising isn't necessary. I think after this discussion it's become obvious that there are many other working and prevalent ways to discover products. In fact, all advertising does is distort and corrupt those existing methods, trying to get me to spend more money than necessary on a worse product. Every cent spent on advertising could've been spent on improving the product instead.
      - satvikpendem 4y ago

satvikpendem 4y ago

We have organizations like Consumer Reports here too in the US, they also make a large amount of money, but that doesn't mean that most people make their purchasing decisions from such organizations. I guarantee if you did some sort of study, most would say they made a primary purchasing decision via advertising.

kuschku 4y ago
According to a GfK Study from April 2021, asking 1001 Germans between 18 and 74, the largest influences on purchasing decisions were: - personal recommendations from friends (35,5%) - independent comparison tests (30,5%) - amazon reviews (23,2%) - media reports (13,7%) - corporate information, including advertising (10,0%)
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  Many of those can include advertising, such as Amazon placement and reviews, media reports (many PR firms exist to push your product onto media outlets), personal recommendations, and even independent comparison tests (people see an ad, and research it more thoroughly including seeing how it fares on comparison tests, and perhaps tell their friends too). I am not saying that the tests themselves are not independent, nor that people don't use them to make purchasing decisions, but the prevalence of advertising is such that you cannot disentangle its influence from every other. Clearly, even in Germany, ads exist, and if they did not work, then the ads would not exist.
  - kuschku 4y ago
    > such as Amazon […] reviews > many PR firms exist to push your product onto media outlets > personal recommendations Half of that is fraud, the other half is at least unethical. Reviews may only be the personal opinion of people who provably purchased the product. False reviews are fraud and explicitly a criminal act. Placing ads in media without explicitly marking it clearly and obviously an ad, so-called “native advertising”, is explicitly a criminal act. > the prevalence of advertising is such that you cannot disentangle its influence from every other. My original argument was that advertising isn't necessary. I think after this discussion it's become obvious that there are many other working and prevalent ways to discover products. In fact, all advertising does is distort and corrupt those existing methods, trying to get me to spend more money than necessary on a worse product. Every cent spent on advertising could've been spent on improving the product instead.
    - satvikpendem 4y ago