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I used to work at Apple and for a very long time we used email for most things, and iMessage for anything urgent. IMO it worked great, and I prefer that to sla

by zffr 4y ago

I used to work at Apple and for a very long time we used email for most things, and iMessage for anything urgent. IMO it worked great, and I prefer that to slack. Email is much more linear and more permanent so it’s much harder to lose things. It’s also much easier to search for things in email IMO. The extra friction invoked with e-mail can also be good for cutting down on unnecessary communication.

mozman 4y ago
I was at a company that used IRC and had a very clear policy: responsiveness isn’t a measure of performance Using your own client allowed you to squash notifications and other silly engagement tactics that plague slack today It was wonderful
- idontwantthis 4y ago
  You can stop notifications in Slack now, and I don't know what the other engagement tactics are.
  - dpkirchner 4y ago
    > other engagement tactics Bots that can't be completely muted, for example. The best you can do is disable notifications for messages created by bots (except slackbot) but as far as I can tell you can't stop the dreaded "red dot" from appearing.
    - mozman 4y ago
      I use the browser version and override favicon, notifications are also disabled and I have some greasemonkey scripts to modify behavior. It’s a moving target though
raverbashing 4y ago
Email is good for one-offs and "general shout-outs", for everything that involves a discussion it is pretty bad Slack conversations and threads are a good sweet spot for team discussions > can also be good for cutting down on unnecessary communication Or you're discouraging conversations that didn't need to, but it would be better in the end if they happened. You can always enter DnD on Slack and attend to DMs as needed
SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
Doesn't that end up with an email inbox full of 1 line back and forths as people relentless grind the little details down to nubs?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- zffr 4y ago
  Nope. If a thread was getting long we would just schedule a meeting to make a decision. I can’t remember ever seeing a thread of just 1 line back and forths (although I have seen this on slack). The 1 line emails I remember were usually from some higher up person who was signing off on some decision and that ended a thread usually.
- Edd314159 4y ago
  Not the worst thing in the world. I'm not saying it's necessarily better than a meeting, but at least you have a paper trail and automatic log of decisions made. (A collaborative doc would probably be a better venue for that, of course.)
- freeone3000 4y ago
  With slack, you have two inboxes: your email, and also your slack notifications.
phpisthebest 4y ago
>>a very long time we used email for most things The only thing worse than email for communication is talking on the phone.... I would love to kill email completely
- wombatpm 4y ago
  Phone calls are ok. Voicemail is the real waste of time
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    100% disagree, I absolute hate when people call me and do not leave a VM. Unless I have prescheduled a call with you, and I am expecting our call you are going to VM, i do not answer unsolicited calls even from people I know
skeeter2020 4y ago
I agree - many people said "email sucks!" and then pushed communication ideally suited for an email into slack. We'd do so much better if we taught people how to pick the right channel for the intent vs. big, dumb generalized rules.
CoolGuySteve 4y ago
Apple also uses Radar which is more effective than other bug trackers. You can file a bug with some product and someone from the other side of the campus will typically reply within days. I think part of it is a user interface issue, interacting with Jira is such an unpleasant affair that often only PMs in a company will interact with it in any depth.
- adwww 4y ago
  Often PMs are the only people with adequate permissions to actually achieve anything with Jira.

by zffr 4y ago

mozman 4y ago

I was at a company that used IRC and had a very clear policy: responsiveness isn’t a measure of performance Using your own client allowed you to squash notifications and other silly engagement tactics that plague slack today It was wonderful

idontwantthis 4y ago
You can stop notifications in Slack now, and I don't know what the other engagement tactics are.
- dpkirchner 4y ago
  > other engagement tactics Bots that can't be completely muted, for example. The best you can do is disable notifications for messages created by bots (except slackbot) but as far as I can tell you can't stop the dreaded "red dot" from appearing.
  - mozman 4y ago
    I use the browser version and override favicon, notifications are also disabled and I have some greasemonkey scripts to modify behavior. It’s a moving target though

raverbashing 4y ago

Email is good for one-offs and "general shout-outs", for everything that involves a discussion it is pretty bad Slack conversations and threads are a good sweet spot for team discussions > can also be good for cutting down on unnecessary communication Or you're discouraging conversations that didn't need to, but it would be better in the end if they happened. You can always enter DnD on Slack and attend to DMs as needed

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago

Doesn't that end up with an email inbox full of 1 line back and forths as people relentless grind the little details down to nubs?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zffr 4y ago
Nope. If a thread was getting long we would just schedule a meeting to make a decision. I can’t remember ever seeing a thread of just 1 line back and forths (although I have seen this on slack). The 1 line emails I remember were usually from some higher up person who was signing off on some decision and that ended a thread usually.
Edd314159 4y ago
Not the worst thing in the world. I'm not saying it's necessarily better than a meeting, but at least you have a paper trail and automatic log of decisions made. (A collaborative doc would probably be a better venue for that, of course.)
freeone3000 4y ago
With slack, you have two inboxes: your email, and also your slack notifications.

phpisthebest 4y ago

>>a very long time we used email for most things The only thing worse than email for communication is talking on the phone.... I would love to kill email completely

wombatpm 4y ago
Phone calls are ok. Voicemail is the real waste of time
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  100% disagree, I absolute hate when people call me and do not leave a VM. Unless I have prescheduled a call with you, and I am expecting our call you are going to VM, i do not answer unsolicited calls even from people I know

skeeter2020 4y ago

I agree - many people said "email sucks!" and then pushed communication ideally suited for an email into slack. We'd do so much better if we taught people how to pick the right channel for the intent vs. big, dumb generalized rules.

CoolGuySteve 4y ago

Apple also uses Radar which is more effective than other bug trackers. You can file a bug with some product and someone from the other side of the campus will typically reply within days. I think part of it is a user interface issue, interacting with Jira is such an unpleasant affair that often only PMs in a company will interact with it in any depth.

adwww 4y ago
Often PMs are the only people with adequate permissions to actually achieve anything with Jira.