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This is one of the reasons I dislike working in teams that lack 'old people'. Young devs still have a lot of mistakes to make that old devs have already made or

This is one of the reasons I dislike working in teams that lack 'old people'. Young devs still have a lot of mistakes to make that old devs have already made or seen. The young ones seem to see them as slow and difficult, but they also create stability and control. In a start-up, having a team of young people will allow you to move fast, pivot and deliver. What you usually end up with though, is a tower built from spaghetti that's serving actual users. I see this again and again and then people get surprised that the software doesn't scale.

JAlexoid 4y ago
The most amazing kicker is that a lot of 5 YoE get senior status, while still making ridiculous mistakes.
selcuka 4y ago
Agreed. This is a corollary of the Second-system effect [1]. By the time developers design their third system they have become relatively "old". [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect
- donkeyd 4y ago
  This is funny, I'm currently working on a second system that replaced the first. It's awful and I think we need to build the third version.
lightbendover 4y ago
I'm so conflicted over becoming an older engineer (having recently moved back from a leadership role). On one hand, I have a wealth of knowledge and can see around corners that the youngsters have no chance of doing. OTOH, it is absolutely exhausting explaining in excruciating detail why I am right time-after-time as new mids join who just want to experiment. That and I am absolutely petrified of my alacrity fading with time.
- mgkimsal 4y ago
  I hear ya. If you feel you've lost your perspicacity, fear not; it's always in the last place you look. But... yeah. A colleague (25+ years) has to deal with this more than I do, but have hit it some over the years, and it happens more the older I get. Often he or I may be 'right' but only because of existing constraints in a system. Someone with a different view may even be 'correct' in a nuts-and-bolts technical sense. Yes, A is 8% faster than B. But... we have an existing system in B that meets our current needs, and team who know B, have written it, and maintained it for a couple years. Switching tech stacks to something no one knows for an 8% network speed boost is not remotely helpful.
denton-scratch 4y ago
My experience of being the old guy in the team (older also than the manager) was that the young whippersnappers[0] drive new tech adoption regardless of the views of the old fart; the manager waves it through to keep the young-un's happy, and the old fart doesn't find out until it's a fait accompli. My experience was also that the young manager was very suspicious of the old fart. I've never had any problem working for managers younger than me; but some young managers don't know what to make of a team member that knows more than they do. [0] No insult intended; almost everything I learned after the first 10 years, I learned from people younger than me.

JAlexoid 4y ago

The most amazing kicker is that a lot of 5 YoE get senior status, while still making ridiculous mistakes.

selcuka 4y ago

Agreed. This is a corollary of the Second-system effect [1]. By the time developers design their third system they have become relatively "old". [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect

donkeyd 4y ago
This is funny, I'm currently working on a second system that replaced the first. It's awful and I think we need to build the third version.

lightbendover 4y ago

I'm so conflicted over becoming an older engineer (having recently moved back from a leadership role). On one hand, I have a wealth of knowledge and can see around corners that the youngsters have no chance of doing. OTOH, it is absolutely exhausting explaining in excruciating detail why I am right time-after-time as new mids join who just want to experiment. That and I am absolutely petrified of my alacrity fading with time.

mgkimsal 4y ago
I hear ya. If you feel you've lost your perspicacity, fear not; it's always in the last place you look. But... yeah. A colleague (25+ years) has to deal with this more than I do, but have hit it some over the years, and it happens more the older I get. Often he or I may be 'right' but only because of existing constraints in a system. Someone with a different view may even be 'correct' in a nuts-and-bolts technical sense. Yes, A is 8% faster than B. But... we have an existing system in B that meets our current needs, and team who know B, have written it, and maintained it for a couple years. Switching tech stacks to something no one knows for an 8% network speed boost is not remotely helpful.

denton-scratch 4y ago

My experience of being the old guy in the team (older also than the manager) was that the young whippersnappers[0] drive new tech adoption regardless of the views of the old fart; the manager waves it through to keep the young-un's happy, and the old fart doesn't find out until it's a fait accompli. My experience was also that the young manager was very suspicious of the old fart. I've never had any problem working for managers younger than me; but some young managers don't know what to make of a team member that knows more than they do. [0] No insult intended; almost everything I learned after the first 10 years, I learned from people younger than me.