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> there just isn't the infrastructure in place to keep Abrams etc in the fight. Afaik, while that's true for Abrams, it doesn't hold for Leopards. Maybe someon

by dmos62 4y ago

> there just isn't the infrastructure in place to keep Abrams etc in the fight. Afaik, while that's true for Abrams, it doesn't hold for Leopards. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment.

ajmurmann 4y ago
Didn't Germany just have a situation where many of their own tanks broke during an exercise?
- H8crilA 4y ago
  It was Pumas, IFVs not tanks. The newest of the new, just a slightly failed rollout, they're already fixed. It's not uncommon at all for new weapon systems. We're talking oldest Leopards and Marders here. Also, it's not just about the vehicles in the Bundeswehr. It's about rallying the Rheinmetall clients to create a pool that can be donated from various European countries, for example adding the excuse to upgrade the european fleet to the latest Leopard standard. It has to start with political decisions, though. The Bundeswehr is fully behind this proposal (it was purposefully leaked to the press early on in the war).
  - codethief 4y ago
    > The Bundeswehr is fully behind this proposal (it was purposefully leaked to the press early on in the war). Not questioning this but do you have a source for that?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - H8crilA 4y ago
      https://www.politico.eu/article/scholz-holds-up-german-tank-delivery-to-ukraine/ https://www.politico.eu/article/scholz-holds-up-german-tank-... https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/olaf-scholz-german-chancellor-denied-kyiv-most-weapons-it-wanted-cldlgbcsq https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/olaf-scholz-german-chance... It doesn't say that the Bundeswehr was behind it, though. Just that "other top officials" were.
      - codethief 4y ago
        Thanks!
moloch-hai 4y ago
Bridges in Ukraine are not rated for the load Leopards present. They would need to be transported by rail, spaced out between empty cars. Probably those Leopards Ukraine gets will need to be stationed opposite the Belarussian border and near Kiev, and could not much alter the course of the war unless another invasion were attempted there.

by dmos62 4y ago

> there just isn't the infrastructure in place to keep Abrams etc in the fight. Afaik, while that's true for Abrams, it doesn't hold for Leopards. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment.

ajmurmann 4y ago

Didn't Germany just have a situation where many of their own tanks broke during an exercise?

H8crilA 4y ago
It was Pumas, IFVs not tanks. The newest of the new, just a slightly failed rollout, they're already fixed. It's not uncommon at all for new weapon systems. We're talking oldest Leopards and Marders here. Also, it's not just about the vehicles in the Bundeswehr. It's about rallying the Rheinmetall clients to create a pool that can be donated from various European countries, for example adding the excuse to upgrade the european fleet to the latest Leopard standard. It has to start with political decisions, though. The Bundeswehr is fully behind this proposal (it was purposefully leaked to the press early on in the war).
- codethief 4y ago
  > The Bundeswehr is fully behind this proposal (it was purposefully leaked to the press early on in the war). Not questioning this but do you have a source for that?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - H8crilA 4y ago
    https://www.politico.eu/article/scholz-holds-up-german-tank-delivery-to-ukraine/ https://www.politico.eu/article/scholz-holds-up-german-tank-... https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/olaf-scholz-german-chancellor-denied-kyiv-most-weapons-it-wanted-cldlgbcsq https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/olaf-scholz-german-chance... It doesn't say that the Bundeswehr was behind it, though. Just that "other top officials" were.
    - codethief 4y ago
      Thanks!

moloch-hai 4y ago

Bridges in Ukraine are not rated for the load Leopards present. They would need to be transported by rail, spaced out between empty cars. Probably those Leopards Ukraine gets will need to be stationed opposite the Belarussian border and near Kiev, and could not much alter the course of the war unless another invasion were attempted there.