9 ms·

Define much. For big businesses, PSPs are well under 1% for both debit and credit cards, as long as said cards are issued in the EEA. With interchange capped

Define much. For big businesses, PSPs are well under 1% for both debit and credit cards, as long as said cards are issued in the EEA. With interchange capped at 0.2/0.3 respectively and scheme fees a little over 0.1, PSPs are can be profitable at 0.6~0.7%, a fraction of the situation in other regions, especially the US.

kuschku 4y ago
If you're a regular business, regardless of if you're using Zettle, SumUp, Sparkasse or Deutsche Bank for payment handling, you'll pay 0.125% for girocard, 0.2% for cash, and 0.9 to 1.9% for a mix of debit and credit cards. It's absolutely ridiculous, and MasterCard's attempt to destroy girocard by forcing banks to choose one or the other is an obvious cash grab to destroy competition.
- xattt 4y ago
  > It's absolutely ridiculous, and MasterCard's attempt to destroy girocard by forcing banks to choose one or the other is an obvious cash grab to destroy competition. I think there’s a similar situation happening in Canada where multiple big banks are adding Visa Debit to their cards (in addition to Interac) and boiling the frog on phasing out the Interac System.
- hocuspocus 4y ago
  SumUp and Zettle are typically used by small businesses, not big ones, and even in this space, there's competition. [1] I don't believe MasterCard and Visa are forcing anyone's hand, but they obviously give better deals to card issuers that don't co-brand their card with the domestic payment network. The scheme fee is the smallest part of the overall transaction fee, in the end it's mostly banks that profit from ditching Girocard and the like. These networks cannot survive on their own since people need a payment card that works in neighboring countries. The EU should really push EPI [2] but I belive the initiative has stalled. Empsa [3] is also promising, but in practice the transaction fees aren't cheaper than using a MasterCard or Visa debit card, at least for now. 1. for instance https://www.stancer.com https://www.stancer.com 2. https://www.epicompany.eu https://www.epicompany.eu 3. https://empsa.org https://empsa.org
  - kuschku 4y ago
    > I don't believe MasterCard and Visa are forcing anyone's hand, but they obviously give better deals to card issuers that don't co-brand their card with the domestic payment network. MasterCard has banned any and all co-branding with domestic payment networks, starting 2023-01-01. Which is why many banks are now forced to abandon Girocard, or are switching to Visa.
    - hocuspocus 4y ago
      Do you have a source? Is it specific to Germany? Because that doesn't seem true everywhere, see in France for instance: https://www.fortuneo.fr/compte-bancaire/carte-gold-mastercard https://www.fortuneo.fr/compte-bancaire/carte-gold-mastercar... It's still co-branded CB.
      - kuschku 4y ago
        See https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/banken-versicherungen/banken/mastercard-nach-maestro-aus-wie-sparkassen-und-volksbanken-auslandszahlungen-mit-girocards-sicherstellen-wollen/28133376.html https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/banken-versicherungen/... It's been delayed a bit, but MasterCard will not support any co-branded cards after summer 2023.
        hocuspocus 4y ago
        Doesn't this article say precisely the opposite? I.e. German banks are able to issue Girocards co-branded MasterCard debit. Maestro is on the way out but that's old news, and already a reality in most of Europe.
        kuschku 4y ago
        If that's actually the case, that would be great, but from what other media, including Zeit report, this change actually leads to bank phasing out Girocard entirely, instead of co-branding with Mastercard debit.
zinekeller 4y ago
Sorry, I've meant the US' interchange rate, not EU's. There are no flat rates (or sometimes it's a floor - you'll be charged a flat $XX even if you processed <XXX transactions (or even not have a transaction) weekly).

kuschku 4y ago

If you're a regular business, regardless of if you're using Zettle, SumUp, Sparkasse or Deutsche Bank for payment handling, you'll pay 0.125% for girocard, 0.2% for cash, and 0.9 to 1.9% for a mix of debit and credit cards. It's absolutely ridiculous, and MasterCard's attempt to destroy girocard by forcing banks to choose one or the other is an obvious cash grab to destroy competition.

xattt 4y ago
> It's absolutely ridiculous, and MasterCard's attempt to destroy girocard by forcing banks to choose one or the other is an obvious cash grab to destroy competition. I think there’s a similar situation happening in Canada where multiple big banks are adding Visa Debit to their cards (in addition to Interac) and boiling the frog on phasing out the Interac System.
hocuspocus 4y ago
SumUp and Zettle are typically used by small businesses, not big ones, and even in this space, there's competition. [1] I don't believe MasterCard and Visa are forcing anyone's hand, but they obviously give better deals to card issuers that don't co-brand their card with the domestic payment network. The scheme fee is the smallest part of the overall transaction fee, in the end it's mostly banks that profit from ditching Girocard and the like. These networks cannot survive on their own since people need a payment card that works in neighboring countries. The EU should really push EPI [2] but I belive the initiative has stalled. Empsa [3] is also promising, but in practice the transaction fees aren't cheaper than using a MasterCard or Visa debit card, at least for now. 1. for instance https://www.stancer.com https://www.stancer.com 2. https://www.epicompany.eu https://www.epicompany.eu 3. https://empsa.org https://empsa.org
- kuschku 4y ago
  > I don't believe MasterCard and Visa are forcing anyone's hand, but they obviously give better deals to card issuers that don't co-brand their card with the domestic payment network. MasterCard has banned any and all co-branding with domestic payment networks, starting 2023-01-01. Which is why many banks are now forced to abandon Girocard, or are switching to Visa.
  - hocuspocus 4y ago
    Do you have a source? Is it specific to Germany? Because that doesn't seem true everywhere, see in France for instance: https://www.fortuneo.fr/compte-bancaire/carte-gold-mastercard https://www.fortuneo.fr/compte-bancaire/carte-gold-mastercar... It's still co-branded CB.
    - kuschku 4y ago
      See https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/banken-versicherungen/banken/mastercard-nach-maestro-aus-wie-sparkassen-und-volksbanken-auslandszahlungen-mit-girocards-sicherstellen-wollen/28133376.html https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/banken-versicherungen/... It's been delayed a bit, but MasterCard will not support any co-branded cards after summer 2023.
      - hocuspocus 4y ago
        Doesn't this article say precisely the opposite? I.e. German banks are able to issue Girocards co-branded MasterCard debit. Maestro is on the way out but that's old news, and already a reality in most of Europe.
        kuschku 4y ago
        If that's actually the case, that would be great, but from what other media, including Zeit report, this change actually leads to bank phasing out Girocard entirely, instead of co-branding with Mastercard debit.

zinekeller 4y ago

Sorry, I've meant the US' interchange rate, not EU's. There are no flat rates (or sometimes it's a floor - you'll be charged a flat $XX even if you processed <XXX transactions (or even not have a transaction) weekly).