4 ms·

What projects do you propose?

olliej 4y ago
Maintaining the existing infrastructure - I would have thought "duh", but Oroville demonstrated not - but there's also various river outflow and levee systems to stop water immediately washing out to the sea without being slowed to allow seeping into the ground reservoirs. Maybe they could talk to Arizona, which apparently does recognize water infrastructure is important: https://waterbank.az.gov/water-storage https://waterbank.az.gov/water-storage
- jeffbee 4y ago
  "Seeping out to sea" is good for riparian ecosystems and we should just let it happen.
  - olliej 4y ago
    No, for those you want relatively slow run off. The reduction of flood plains, and the removal of natural dams (beavers!) means that what you mostly get is high speed run off that is high in sediment and low in oxygen.
- nostrademons 4y ago
  Oroville was actually rebuilt and held up nicely in recent atmospheric rivers. Same with the South Bay dams that caused the San Jose flooding in 2017. I wouldn't use those as examples - if anything, they are examples of how California actually can build infrastructure, quickly and reliably, when there is profound media embarrassment and multi-million-dollar lawsuits at stake. The infrastructure you have to worry about is the stuff that everybody's forgotten about, eg. the levee and dam systems in the Delta.
  - olliej 4y ago
    What? Oriville dam is infrastructure that was forgotten about. We only know about it in any immediate sense now because it collapsed due to the failure to maintain it. Which was my point. Seriously, any “cost cutting” measures that “defer” maintenance of infrastructure should be required to put aside funds to rebuild that infrastructure.
    - nostrademons 4y ago
      Oroville dam did not collapse. The main spillway developed a large crater in it that put it out of operation, and there was serious worry about the emergency spillway collapsing, but the dam itself was never in any serious danger of collapsing. (If it had, you would've heard about it. The impact of the emergency spillway collapsing would've been a 30 foot wall of water going down the Feather River; the impact of the dam itself collapsing would've been a 700 foot wall of water going down the Feather River.) Both the emergency and main spillways were fully repaired in 2018, and the repairs have held up nicely in subsequent rainstorms. You probably didn't hear about the repairs because the media never reports on stuff that goes as planned. There are several case studies about it on civil engineering blogs & channels though: https://practical.engineering/blog/2021/12/20/rebuilding-the-oroville-dam-spillways https://practical.engineering/blog/2021/12/20/rebuilding-the...
- koheripbal 4y ago
  None of that would help in this specific situation.
  - olliej 4y ago
    What are you talking about? The goal is not to prevent a heavy storm. It’s to try to retain more of the water when the state does actually get some.

Maintaining the existing infrastructure - I would have thought "duh", but Oroville demonstrated not - but there's also various river outflow and levee systems to stop water immediately washing out to the sea without being slowed to allow seeping into the ground reservoirs. Maybe they could talk to Arizona, which apparently does recognize water infrastructure is important: https://waterbank.az.gov/water-storage https://waterbank.az.gov/water-storage

jeffbee 4y ago
"Seeping out to sea" is good for riparian ecosystems and we should just let it happen.
- olliej 4y ago
  No, for those you want relatively slow run off. The reduction of flood plains, and the removal of natural dams (beavers!) means that what you mostly get is high speed run off that is high in sediment and low in oxygen.
nostrademons 4y ago
Oroville was actually rebuilt and held up nicely in recent atmospheric rivers. Same with the South Bay dams that caused the San Jose flooding in 2017. I wouldn't use those as examples - if anything, they are examples of how California actually can build infrastructure, quickly and reliably, when there is profound media embarrassment and multi-million-dollar lawsuits at stake. The infrastructure you have to worry about is the stuff that everybody's forgotten about, eg. the levee and dam systems in the Delta.
- olliej 4y ago
  What? Oriville dam is infrastructure that was forgotten about. We only know about it in any immediate sense now because it collapsed due to the failure to maintain it. Which was my point. Seriously, any “cost cutting” measures that “defer” maintenance of infrastructure should be required to put aside funds to rebuild that infrastructure.
  - nostrademons 4y ago
    Oroville dam did not collapse. The main spillway developed a large crater in it that put it out of operation, and there was serious worry about the emergency spillway collapsing, but the dam itself was never in any serious danger of collapsing. (If it had, you would've heard about it. The impact of the emergency spillway collapsing would've been a 30 foot wall of water going down the Feather River; the impact of the dam itself collapsing would've been a 700 foot wall of water going down the Feather River.) Both the emergency and main spillways were fully repaired in 2018, and the repairs have held up nicely in subsequent rainstorms. You probably didn't hear about the repairs because the media never reports on stuff that goes as planned. There are several case studies about it on civil engineering blogs & channels though: https://practical.engineering/blog/2021/12/20/rebuilding-the-oroville-dam-spillways https://practical.engineering/blog/2021/12/20/rebuilding-the...
koheripbal 4y ago
None of that would help in this specific situation.
- olliej 4y ago
  What are you talking about? The goal is not to prevent a heavy storm. It’s to try to retain more of the water when the state does actually get some.