4 ms·

3 years after going EOL, and 14 years after the release of Python 3. Good riddance at long last.

chungy 4y ago
I suspect that Debian 10 and 11 will continue getting security patches for some time. All the same, it's great progress. :)
- captn3m0 4y ago
  Debian 11 goes EOL in August 2026.
  - chungy 4y ago
    It's pretty bold to pin such a specific date when the release date of Debian 12 is not yet known. Debian releases are fully supported for one year after the next release launches, and then the LTS projects keep it going for another 5~7 years.
    - captn3m0 4y ago
      True, should have said "around Aug 2026" perhaps? The LTS project[0] plans for a minimum of 5 year support from the date of initial release, so Aug 2026 is based on the Aug 2021 release date + 5 years. The rough-schedule on the LTS wiki also uses "June 2026" for now. That's what we've been showing so far on https://endoflife.date/debian https://endoflife.date/debian (With a disclaimer about what LTS means). Suggestions welcome! [0]: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
cellularmitosis 4y ago
I see the sort of perspective pervasively, but I don’t really understand it. I would guess that most people wouldn’t consider expunging c89 from gcc to be progress, yet this is almost universally the attitude towards python2. What am I missing?
- dataflow 4y ago
  Depends whom you ask, I think. Some would see expunging C in its entirety as a massive progress, and some would say the same for C++, etc.
- dharmab 4y ago
  python2 code was not necessarily forwards compatible with python3. 3 was explicitly attempting to correct some regrettable choices in python2 and wasn't syntax compatible as a result. The effort for implementation and package maintainers to support both versions was considerable, resulting in some notable packages only supporting one or the other. In the words of the Python maintainers: We needed to sunset Python 2 so we can help Python users by improving Python faster. We released Python 2.0 in 2000. We realized a few years later that we needed to make big changes to improve Python. So in 2006, we started Python 3.0. Many people did not upgrade, and we did not want to hurt them. So, for many years, we have kept improving and publishing both Python 2 and Python 3. But this makes it hard to improve Python. There are improvements Python 2 can't handle. And we have less time to work on making Python 3 better and faster. And if many people keep using Python 2, then that makes it hard for the volunteers who use Python to make software. They can't use the good new things in Python 3 to improve the tools they make. https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/
  - cellularmitosis 4y ago
    Thanks for taking the time to explain that.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    And to add to that: the innumerable ways in which two python installations on the same machine can step on each others toes.
- erik_seaberg 4y ago
  Survivorship bias. Teams whose projects were seriously derailed are more likely to have stopped using and relying on Python.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> 14 years after the release of Python 3 The first 3.x releases were in no way good enough to replace 2.x and should not be counted like this.

I suspect that Debian 10 and 11 will continue getting security patches for some time. All the same, it's great progress. :)

captn3m0 4y ago
Debian 11 goes EOL in August 2026.
- chungy 4y ago
  It's pretty bold to pin such a specific date when the release date of Debian 12 is not yet known. Debian releases are fully supported for one year after the next release launches, and then the LTS projects keep it going for another 5~7 years.
  - captn3m0 4y ago
    True, should have said "around Aug 2026" perhaps? The LTS project[0] plans for a minimum of 5 year support from the date of initial release, so Aug 2026 is based on the Aug 2021 release date + 5 years. The rough-schedule on the LTS wiki also uses "June 2026" for now. That's what we've been showing so far on https://endoflife.date/debian https://endoflife.date/debian (With a disclaimer about what LTS means). Suggestions welcome! [0]: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

cellularmitosis 4y ago

I see the sort of perspective pervasively, but I don’t really understand it. I would guess that most people wouldn’t consider expunging c89 from gcc to be progress, yet this is almost universally the attitude towards python2. What am I missing?

dataflow 4y ago
Depends whom you ask, I think. Some would see expunging C in its entirety as a massive progress, and some would say the same for C++, etc.
dharmab 4y ago
python2 code was not necessarily forwards compatible with python3. 3 was explicitly attempting to correct some regrettable choices in python2 and wasn't syntax compatible as a result. The effort for implementation and package maintainers to support both versions was considerable, resulting in some notable packages only supporting one or the other. In the words of the Python maintainers: We needed to sunset Python 2 so we can help Python users by improving Python faster. We released Python 2.0 in 2000. We realized a few years later that we needed to make big changes to improve Python. So in 2006, we started Python 3.0. Many people did not upgrade, and we did not want to hurt them. So, for many years, we have kept improving and publishing both Python 2 and Python 3. But this makes it hard to improve Python. There are improvements Python 2 can't handle. And we have less time to work on making Python 3 better and faster. And if many people keep using Python 2, then that makes it hard for the volunteers who use Python to make software. They can't use the good new things in Python 3 to improve the tools they make. https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/
- cellularmitosis 4y ago
  Thanks for taking the time to explain that.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  And to add to that: the innumerable ways in which two python installations on the same machine can step on each others toes.
erik_seaberg 4y ago
Survivorship bias. Teams whose projects were seriously derailed are more likely to have stopped using and relying on Python.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

> 14 years after the release of Python 3 The first 3.x releases were in no way good enough to replace 2.x and should not be counted like this.