4 ms·

That's a long way of saying: yes, he's a bully.

by rlt 4y ago

onethought 4y ago
Bullying google… I don’t think that’s a thing even if you’re Apple. I think this is just shrewd business.
- ivalm 4y ago
  Illegal business practice
- bdcravens 4y ago
  More a matter of bullying his employees by proxy.
- jjulius 4y ago
  "Shrewd business", bullying, tomato, tomahto.
  - onethought 4y ago
    Bullying implies a power imbalance. This is google we are talking about. They did poach a huge chunk of the safari team. They then did launch a competing browser and aggressively pushed that browser globally. They forked the mainline project of WebKit and created blink - for reasons relating to Chrome product roadmap. It was a big deal when they did it. But Jobs predicting this is what they were up to and calling google and complaining they are poaching a whole team from Apple. Is bullying? Which CEO wouldn’t be upset at an entire core team being targeted by a competitor? It’s not price fixing, it’s not illegal (to be upset or to call another ceo and complain).
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      > But Jobs predicting this is what they were up to and calling google and complaining they are poaching a whole team from Apple. Is bullying? How would you feel if you were actively looking for another job and the CEO of your company repeatedly called one the the companies that was going to give you an offer to yell at them and try to intimidate them with threats of "war" into not hiring you? That sure sounds a lot like bullying, even if you don't think it is bullying, it is certainly an illegal business practice. This isn't just my opinion, but that of the DOJ and the court. While that case was settled without a trial, I'll note that the judge took the rare step of rejecting the first settlement agreement because Apple and Google didn't pay enough.
      - onethought 4y ago
        Want that for non complete agreements? Not for CEOs shouting at each other. This want “an individual looking for a job”. This was a google going after an entire team. Honestly everyone has the bullying round the wrong way here. Steve jobs was an ass in this instance, but his actions are likely 99.9% of other CEOs actions
        shkkmo 4y ago
        > Want that for non complete agreements? Some places have made those illegal or greatly restricted them, hopefully that will spread. > This want “an individual looking for a job”. This was a google going after an entire team. It was google trying to hire ~3 internal recommendations. From the emails it sounds like for the main hiring prospect was potentially more interested if all 3 got offers and was also already looking at offer from other companies. I don't specifically see anything about it being an "entire team", so I'm curious where you got that from. > Steve jobs was an ass in this instance, but his actions are likely 99.9% of other CEOs actions I think the 99.9% number is a bit too high (and certainly hard to source). I do think you are correct that this (and other) illegal business practices are extremely common among CEOs, especially in companies of this size. Though I think CEOs of companies of this size are usually quite a bit more circumspect in how they go about it. Again, the legal way to approach this is to make the developers an offer of better projects (which is sounds like Apple tried), money or other perks to make the job attractive. A volatile CEO who did what Jobs did here would probably count against that (if the employees knew what he did.)
Thorrez 4y ago
What motivates a bully? Power? I think Steve Jobs is motivated by money here.
- jjulius 4y ago
  Money can motivate a bully, absolutely.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  I don't think it was just money for him. He had a huge ego too. And he cared about this products, in fact he would risk a lot of money for them. I think cook is much more driven by money and it shows. Much less risk taking.
- jasmer 4y ago
  "I think Steve Jobs is motivated by money here." Don't not consider that Sergei and Larry are not just as motivated by money as Steve, and trying to tap into leverage potential developed elsewhere, because it's a way to 'do more stuff that also makes more money'. It's 'small scale hardball' between CEO's and that's mostly it. Drama. The 'Young and Restless of the Valley', Tuesday afternoons @ 2pm.

That's a long way of saying: yes, he's a bully.

by rlt 4y ago

That's a long way of saying: yes, he's a bully.

onethought 4y ago

Bullying google… I don’t think that’s a thing even if you’re Apple. I think this is just shrewd business.

ivalm 4y ago
Illegal business practice
bdcravens 4y ago
More a matter of bullying his employees by proxy.
jjulius 4y ago
"Shrewd business", bullying, tomato, tomahto.
- onethought 4y ago
  Bullying implies a power imbalance. This is google we are talking about. They did poach a huge chunk of the safari team. They then did launch a competing browser and aggressively pushed that browser globally. They forked the mainline project of WebKit and created blink - for reasons relating to Chrome product roadmap. It was a big deal when they did it. But Jobs predicting this is what they were up to and calling google and complaining they are poaching a whole team from Apple. Is bullying? Which CEO wouldn’t be upset at an entire core team being targeted by a competitor? It’s not price fixing, it’s not illegal (to be upset or to call another ceo and complain).
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    > But Jobs predicting this is what they were up to and calling google and complaining they are poaching a whole team from Apple. Is bullying? How would you feel if you were actively looking for another job and the CEO of your company repeatedly called one the the companies that was going to give you an offer to yell at them and try to intimidate them with threats of "war" into not hiring you? That sure sounds a lot like bullying, even if you don't think it is bullying, it is certainly an illegal business practice. This isn't just my opinion, but that of the DOJ and the court. While that case was settled without a trial, I'll note that the judge took the rare step of rejecting the first settlement agreement because Apple and Google didn't pay enough.
    - onethought 4y ago
      Want that for non complete agreements? Not for CEOs shouting at each other. This want “an individual looking for a job”. This was a google going after an entire team. Honestly everyone has the bullying round the wrong way here. Steve jobs was an ass in this instance, but his actions are likely 99.9% of other CEOs actions
      - shkkmo 4y ago
        > Want that for non complete agreements? Some places have made those illegal or greatly restricted them, hopefully that will spread. > This want “an individual looking for a job”. This was a google going after an entire team. It was google trying to hire ~3 internal recommendations. From the emails it sounds like for the main hiring prospect was potentially more interested if all 3 got offers and was also already looking at offer from other companies. I don't specifically see anything about it being an "entire team", so I'm curious where you got that from. > Steve jobs was an ass in this instance, but his actions are likely 99.9% of other CEOs actions I think the 99.9% number is a bit too high (and certainly hard to source). I do think you are correct that this (and other) illegal business practices are extremely common among CEOs, especially in companies of this size. Though I think CEOs of companies of this size are usually quite a bit more circumspect in how they go about it. Again, the legal way to approach this is to make the developers an offer of better projects (which is sounds like Apple tried), money or other perks to make the job attractive. A volatile CEO who did what Jobs did here would probably count against that (if the employees knew what he did.)

Thorrez 4y ago

What motivates a bully? Power? I think Steve Jobs is motivated by money here.

jjulius 4y ago
Money can motivate a bully, absolutely.
wkat4242 4y ago
I don't think it was just money for him. He had a huge ego too. And he cared about this products, in fact he would risk a lot of money for them. I think cook is much more driven by money and it shows. Much less risk taking.
jasmer 4y ago
"I think Steve Jobs is motivated by money here." Don't not consider that Sergei and Larry are not just as motivated by money as Steve, and trying to tap into leverage potential developed elsewhere, because it's a way to 'do more stuff that also makes more money'. It's 'small scale hardball' between CEO's and that's mostly it. Drama. The 'Young and Restless of the Valley', Tuesday afternoons @ 2pm.