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It's also the most vibrant economy of the developed world by miles. I feel the two are related in a way (although I'm a salaried employee as well). I think a lo

It's also the most vibrant economy of the developed world by miles. I feel the two are related in a way (although I'm a salaried employee as well). I think a lot of cut-throat oddities in the US employment sphere have a lot to do with its success. That along with how laws also support the ~treacheries that give birth to the Intel-from-Fairchild types of business.

messe 4y ago
And with some of the least developed public infrastructure and largest amounts of inequality in the developed world by kilometers. I don't disagree with you that it's a factor in US economic growth, I'm just not remotely convinced that it's worth the suffering caused by it.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  >least developed public infrastructure By which measure? Also, how is ireland any better in that regard, especially w.r.t infrastructure? Europe in general wouldn't necessarily have a better public infrastructure either, it's just that there is a lot more discussion about America and its issues (even in Europe). And I'm saying that as someone who is neither american nor European. (Not to mention that ireland was almost a third world country until it started attracting capital with shady loopholes and lack of regulations compared to the US and Europe, which makes the comparison even weirder.)
  - messe 4y ago
    Public transport, healthcare, even the fucking roads, just to name a few. Every time I've gone to the US, I've been astounded at how awful the roads are in comparison—in particular along the west coast, which given California's GDP, you'd expect better. Even Ireland, which has comparitively shit public transport compared to the rest of europe, is miles ahead of most of the US. > (Not to mention that ireland was almost a third world country until it started attracting capital with shady loopholes and lack of regulations compared to the US and Europe, which makes the comparison even weirder.) It's significantly more nuanced than that (and the US is equally as guilty of aiding corporate tax evasion thanks to Delaware—if the US actually wanted to tax income that is currently being routed through Ireland, it could just pass a law to do so). We're definitely a tax haven, no denying that, but our infrastructure started improving well before that became the case. But that's not really relevant to the discussion, which is about employment rights.
- AYBABTME 4y ago
  > I'm just not remotely convinced that it's worth the suffering caused by it. I hear you, but I don't know where I fall on this. I think my conclusion is that the US is largely imposing this diet onto itself in a self-sacrificial way, as the price to pay to be the world's leading power, which in turn enables world peace (mostly, so far). I have the intuition that comfortable countries (European, Canada where I'm from) only manage to have those social services because they follow in the wake of the US. And they're also much less economically dynamic. Also I do think that the worst of US suffering is really much less worse than the suffering seen in the rest of the world, by miles. As such I think it's hard for me to conclude whether it's all worth it or not. If the US wasn't how it is, another power would rule. Would that other power be as benign and cooperative as the US has been? In current days, the alternative powers would be China, and I don't think a Chinese world power system would be better for everyone. What improvement could the US do to its system so that it would remain dominant while also being a bit more humane? That would be a worthy goal.
  - messe 4y ago
    I can't disagree with you there, although to be clear, I don't necessarily agree either, I just don't think we have enough evidence to make a conclusion. I think some immediate policies that the US could introduce is universal healthcare by expanding medicaid, and work toward the elimination of student loan debt (leading to greater social mobility).
    - AYBABTME 4y ago
      Same, all just conjectures.
  - donbrae 4y ago
    > If the US wasn't how it is, another power would rule. Would that other power be as benign and cooperative as the US has been? In current days, the alternative powers would be China, and I don't think a Chinese world power system would be better for everyone. From this European’s perspective, I welcome the US’s benign power, now and historically (the Marshall plan), and agree the alternatives have always been terrible (unless, say, Canada were to step up in the event of US decline). However, I’m not sure I would share this perspective if I were living in one of the South American countries where the US has overturned elections, or Iraq or Vietnam. US power is benign as long as you’re on their side.
- refurb 4y ago
  If you think the US has the least developed public infrastructure, I'm assuming you haven't traveled much.
yardie 4y ago
Just finished reading an article on how some Indian reservations have no electricity nor running water. We have the worlds richest rich by a mile. But we have some of the least developed infrastructure out of all the developed nations.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
HWR_14 4y ago
> the most vibrant economy of the developed world By what measure?
- bombela 4y ago
  freedom units
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    I should have guessed. The original poster did say "by miles"

messe 4y ago

And with some of the least developed public infrastructure and largest amounts of inequality in the developed world by kilometers. I don't disagree with you that it's a factor in US economic growth, I'm just not remotely convinced that it's worth the suffering caused by it.

mardifoufs 4y ago
>least developed public infrastructure By which measure? Also, how is ireland any better in that regard, especially w.r.t infrastructure? Europe in general wouldn't necessarily have a better public infrastructure either, it's just that there is a lot more discussion about America and its issues (even in Europe). And I'm saying that as someone who is neither american nor European. (Not to mention that ireland was almost a third world country until it started attracting capital with shady loopholes and lack of regulations compared to the US and Europe, which makes the comparison even weirder.)
- messe 4y ago
  Public transport, healthcare, even the fucking roads, just to name a few. Every time I've gone to the US, I've been astounded at how awful the roads are in comparison—in particular along the west coast, which given California's GDP, you'd expect better. Even Ireland, which has comparitively shit public transport compared to the rest of europe, is miles ahead of most of the US. > (Not to mention that ireland was almost a third world country until it started attracting capital with shady loopholes and lack of regulations compared to the US and Europe, which makes the comparison even weirder.) It's significantly more nuanced than that (and the US is equally as guilty of aiding corporate tax evasion thanks to Delaware—if the US actually wanted to tax income that is currently being routed through Ireland, it could just pass a law to do so). We're definitely a tax haven, no denying that, but our infrastructure started improving well before that became the case. But that's not really relevant to the discussion, which is about employment rights.
AYBABTME 4y ago
> I'm just not remotely convinced that it's worth the suffering caused by it. I hear you, but I don't know where I fall on this. I think my conclusion is that the US is largely imposing this diet onto itself in a self-sacrificial way, as the price to pay to be the world's leading power, which in turn enables world peace (mostly, so far). I have the intuition that comfortable countries (European, Canada where I'm from) only manage to have those social services because they follow in the wake of the US. And they're also much less economically dynamic. Also I do think that the worst of US suffering is really much less worse than the suffering seen in the rest of the world, by miles. As such I think it's hard for me to conclude whether it's all worth it or not. If the US wasn't how it is, another power would rule. Would that other power be as benign and cooperative as the US has been? In current days, the alternative powers would be China, and I don't think a Chinese world power system would be better for everyone. What improvement could the US do to its system so that it would remain dominant while also being a bit more humane? That would be a worthy goal.
- messe 4y ago
  I can't disagree with you there, although to be clear, I don't necessarily agree either, I just don't think we have enough evidence to make a conclusion. I think some immediate policies that the US could introduce is universal healthcare by expanding medicaid, and work toward the elimination of student loan debt (leading to greater social mobility).
  - AYBABTME 4y ago
    Same, all just conjectures.
- donbrae 4y ago
  > If the US wasn't how it is, another power would rule. Would that other power be as benign and cooperative as the US has been? In current days, the alternative powers would be China, and I don't think a Chinese world power system would be better for everyone. From this European’s perspective, I welcome the US’s benign power, now and historically (the Marshall plan), and agree the alternatives have always been terrible (unless, say, Canada were to step up in the event of US decline). However, I’m not sure I would share this perspective if I were living in one of the South American countries where the US has overturned elections, or Iraq or Vietnam. US power is benign as long as you’re on their side.
refurb 4y ago
If you think the US has the least developed public infrastructure, I'm assuming you haven't traveled much.

yardie 4y ago

Just finished reading an article on how some Indian reservations have no electricity nor running water. We have the worlds richest rich by a mile. But we have some of the least developed infrastructure out of all the developed nations.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

HWR_14 4y ago

> the most vibrant economy of the developed world By what measure?

bombela 4y ago
freedom units
- HWR_14 4y ago
  I should have guessed. The original poster did say "by miles"