8 ms·

I'm kind of surprised that this article did not mention John Philip Sousa, who was both one of the most successful "recording artists" of that time and one of t

I'm kind of surprised that this article did not mention John Philip Sousa, who was both one of the most successful "recording artists" of that time and one of the most outspoken opponents of recorded music. (If you are American, you definitely know Sousa. Think of any patriotic march you've ever heard. Sousa probably wrote that.) Sousa was not so much worried about the economic effects, but about how the new technology would change the social function of music. It would change what music was. He worried that instead of people gathering around the family or neighborhood pianist and singing together, they would be alone in their own rooms passively listening. He worried that children would no longer gather on neighbourhood stoops to make up their own little songs and sing them together, but would all start passively consuming the same music as every one else in the country. Sousa was worried that recoding technology would change music from active social interactions where we create music together into isolated, passive consumption. Sousa was right.

boredemployee 4y ago
And that allowed us to move from a society in which only those who had money could make music and join groups, to a society that can express themselves artistically and musically in a much more democratic way, because many more people can have the means to produce music in their home. People can discover new music and share it in real time with their micro-communities online. Creating possibilities for artists who don't live in big cities to become world wide known. I'm glad he was right.
- zwkrt 4y ago
  s/produce/replay Yes reproduction allowed the top .01% of musicians to gain world renown, but as GP stated it really made the activity of socially enjoying and creating music less accessible.
  - boredemployee 4y ago
    >> it really made the activity of socially enjoying and creating music less accessible. Not sure if I agree, I still see people doing music together or gathering to listen to music, but maybe I'm biased by my environment.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  If you want a social activity that revolves around music, join a dance club. You'll enjoy the music a lot more by adding the physical movement to it.
  - maximus-decimus 4y ago
    Are there pop punk dance clubs?
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      I don't know. I go to partner dances. It's not something you can do at home.
  - asdf_snar 4y ago
    I think the statement that "You'll enjoy the music a lot more by adding the physical movement to it" is unlikely to apply to everyone, and may not even apply to a majority of people. Not because humans don't have a natural inclination to "move to the beat" (they might), but because a dance club may be much more intimidating for many people than, say, a music circle.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      > is unlikely to apply to everyone Me: "Humans are bipedal" You: "Some humans have only one leg"
      - fipar 4y ago
        I have both legs, I love music (our home has several musical instruments), and I'd never join a dance club. Glad it works for you but I just wanted to offer another perspective. Also, nitpicking, but you can dance even with just one leg, as the first (or one of the very first) verses in "Moving to Florida" by the Butthole Surfers shows ;)
        WalterBright 4y ago
- asdff 4y ago
  If you think back then that only those who had money made music and formed groups, you must have no concept of folk music. Slaves were forming bands and writing songs we still sing today (e.g. "Follow the Drinking Gourd" or "Where did you sleep last night" that Nirvana went on to cover); money wasn't a limiting factor like it is today with the need to market yourself and the prices of musical equipment.
PhileasNietzche 4y ago
I'm glad I'm not some mook like Sousa was, contributing to the nationalism of a country like the United States of America while harboring the futile wish that evolution would just stop with my preferences.
fipar 4y ago
> Sousa was right. He was partially right, which means he was partially wrong too. Yeah, a lot of isolated music listening (I'm not going with consumption, sorry) did happen. I can definitely attest to that as someone from the "Walkman generation". But all the kids forming "bands" all over the world show that the active social interaction of music didn't go away. Or maybe I'm just lucky, as on a weekly basis I stumble upon the sound of people jamming while taking random walks in my city. I read "they would be alone in their own rooms passively listening" and think of Björk's song headphones ("my headphones, they saved my life") and just awe at the seemingly infinite range of human thought and emotion ...
- asdff 4y ago
  People were forming bands long before recording artists were popular. It wouldn't look like the beatles though. It would be you on accordion and your friend on upright bass taking turns singing polka songs for weddings, funerals, in bars, at war, or anything really. If you wanted music back then you needed a musician, which probably meant there were more musician jobs overall. Maybe in some ways, back before the rockstar era, it might have been more realistic to set out and make a career as a musician in a band. These days though, you don't need a couple musicians in each and every bar in town every night for drinking music, you just open spotify, and if you actually do hire a local musician to play the drinking music you are something of an anomaly.
  - rowanajmarshall 4y ago
    > These days though, you don't need a couple musicians in each and every bar in town every night for drinking music... if you actually do hire a local musician to play the drinking music you are something of an anomaly. Maybe where I am (London) is an outlier, but it's not hard _at all_ to find a free neighbourhood pub open mic night on any day of the week, not to mention full on live music venues.
    - asdff 4y ago
      I'd say its an outlier. There are places like that in the U.S. of course but the vast majority of bars and clubs just play a playlist off of some workers phone who is on the clock that night.
ramesh31 4y ago
>Sousa was right. Sure, but so was Thamus [0]. The invention of the written word was met with the same skepticism. People feared the loss of oral tradition. No more bards memorizing epic tales to be passed down from generation to generation, just passive consumers reading the thoughts of others and mistaking it for wisdom. But ultimately new technologies unlock potential that can't possibly be dreamed of at their inception. Beware the one-eyed prophet who sees any technological innovation as strictly good or bad. [0] https://blogs.ubc.ca/etec540sept12/2012/09/30/what-was-the-judgement-of-thamus/ https://blogs.ubc.ca/etec540sept12/2012/09/30/what-was-the-j...
milesward 4y ago
I play a sousaphone :)

boredemployee 4y ago

And that allowed us to move from a society in which only those who had money could make music and join groups, to a society that can express themselves artistically and musically in a much more democratic way, because many more people can have the means to produce music in their home. People can discover new music and share it in real time with their micro-communities online. Creating possibilities for artists who don't live in big cities to become world wide known. I'm glad he was right.

zwkrt 4y ago
s/produce/replay Yes reproduction allowed the top .01% of musicians to gain world renown, but as GP stated it really made the activity of socially enjoying and creating music less accessible.
- boredemployee 4y ago
  >> it really made the activity of socially enjoying and creating music less accessible. Not sure if I agree, I still see people doing music together or gathering to listen to music, but maybe I'm biased by my environment.
WalterBright 4y ago
If you want a social activity that revolves around music, join a dance club. You'll enjoy the music a lot more by adding the physical movement to it.
- maximus-decimus 4y ago
  Are there pop punk dance clubs?
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    I don't know. I go to partner dances. It's not something you can do at home.
- asdf_snar 4y ago
  I think the statement that "You'll enjoy the music a lot more by adding the physical movement to it" is unlikely to apply to everyone, and may not even apply to a majority of people. Not because humans don't have a natural inclination to "move to the beat" (they might), but because a dance club may be much more intimidating for many people than, say, a music circle.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    > is unlikely to apply to everyone Me: "Humans are bipedal" You: "Some humans have only one leg"
    - fipar 4y ago
      I have both legs, I love music (our home has several musical instruments), and I'd never join a dance club. Glad it works for you but I just wanted to offer another perspective. Also, nitpicking, but you can dance even with just one leg, as the first (or one of the very first) verses in "Moving to Florida" by the Butthole Surfers shows ;)
      - WalterBright 4y ago
asdff 4y ago
If you think back then that only those who had money made music and formed groups, you must have no concept of folk music. Slaves were forming bands and writing songs we still sing today (e.g. "Follow the Drinking Gourd" or "Where did you sleep last night" that Nirvana went on to cover); money wasn't a limiting factor like it is today with the need to market yourself and the prices of musical equipment.

PhileasNietzche 4y ago

I'm glad I'm not some mook like Sousa was, contributing to the nationalism of a country like the United States of America while harboring the futile wish that evolution would just stop with my preferences.

fipar 4y ago

> Sousa was right. He was partially right, which means he was partially wrong too. Yeah, a lot of isolated music listening (I'm not going with consumption, sorry) did happen. I can definitely attest to that as someone from the "Walkman generation". But all the kids forming "bands" all over the world show that the active social interaction of music didn't go away. Or maybe I'm just lucky, as on a weekly basis I stumble upon the sound of people jamming while taking random walks in my city. I read "they would be alone in their own rooms passively listening" and think of Björk's song headphones ("my headphones, they saved my life") and just awe at the seemingly infinite range of human thought and emotion ...

asdff 4y ago
People were forming bands long before recording artists were popular. It wouldn't look like the beatles though. It would be you on accordion and your friend on upright bass taking turns singing polka songs for weddings, funerals, in bars, at war, or anything really. If you wanted music back then you needed a musician, which probably meant there were more musician jobs overall. Maybe in some ways, back before the rockstar era, it might have been more realistic to set out and make a career as a musician in a band. These days though, you don't need a couple musicians in each and every bar in town every night for drinking music, you just open spotify, and if you actually do hire a local musician to play the drinking music you are something of an anomaly.
- rowanajmarshall 4y ago
  > These days though, you don't need a couple musicians in each and every bar in town every night for drinking music... if you actually do hire a local musician to play the drinking music you are something of an anomaly. Maybe where I am (London) is an outlier, but it's not hard _at all_ to find a free neighbourhood pub open mic night on any day of the week, not to mention full on live music venues.
  - asdff 4y ago
    I'd say its an outlier. There are places like that in the U.S. of course but the vast majority of bars and clubs just play a playlist off of some workers phone who is on the clock that night.

ramesh31 4y ago

>Sousa was right. Sure, but so was Thamus [0]. The invention of the written word was met with the same skepticism. People feared the loss of oral tradition. No more bards memorizing epic tales to be passed down from generation to generation, just passive consumers reading the thoughts of others and mistaking it for wisdom. But ultimately new technologies unlock potential that can't possibly be dreamed of at their inception. Beware the one-eyed prophet who sees any technological innovation as strictly good or bad. [0] https://blogs.ubc.ca/etec540sept12/2012/09/30/what-was-the-judgement-of-thamus/ https://blogs.ubc.ca/etec540sept12/2012/09/30/what-was-the-j...

milesward 4y ago

I play a sousaphone :)