5 ms·

Tell HN: I found a correlation between chess rating and depression

12 points by Akcium 4y ago

I'm not sure if I'm totally correct but that's a fun fact. I suffer from mood ups and downs, and but everyday (usually when I eat) I play blitz. The thing is that the rating that I have, quite a lot depends on my mood. Which is maybe obvious, but I can see it on this chart: https://share.cleanshot.com/480sYN5Z https://share.cleanshot.com/480sYN5Z By this chart it's possible to understand my mood, concentration, cognitive things and all that. When the rating swing in a range +- 50 it's okay, but when you loose 200 points it's usually due to something wrong with you. For me it's certainly depression. That's it, just a random fact that probably true. Probably not. Not scientific. But recently I coulnd't get from 1730 to my previous 1900+ for weeks, loosing all the time

rossdavidh 4y ago
Or, you get really down when you're losing more at chess. :)
iamthirsty 4y ago
Or... this is jus anecdotal evidence that how you feel or how focused you are affects your rating. If I'm tired, distracted or not feeling well, of course I play worse and therefore lose rating. But when I'm feeling good and focused, my rating grows as normally. Just like anything else that depends on your mental &/or physical state. Not really news, no offense.
Shorel 4y ago
Seems normal/expected. In the weiqi/baduk/go world, it is said your opponent knows you better than yourself, because he notices all the changes in the way you play.
travelhead 4y ago
I definitely think you’re on to something. Chess rating, with sufficient number of games, over a long duration, is an excellent measure of progress or lack thereof. It could also serve as an early warning indicator for Alzheimer’s or neurodegenerative diseases, especially bullet (1 minute) chess which relies both on motor coordination and rapid thinking ability.
- usgroup 4y ago
  i really dont think it could .. if you pick a few random users and check their rating curves on lichess it doesnt take long to see that for many, their best rating was at some point in the past. i think this is because their interest in chess wanes over time and they lose rating rather than because their intelligence is decreasing. i think users that fixate on chess as an intelligence test risk misattributing their performance to their capacity because they do not understand all the factors of performance.
xedrac 4y ago
Chess takes a lot of energy and concentration, and when I'm feeling depressed, I have neither. So yeah, I'd say there's certainly a correlation between the two. As an experiment, you should try turning off all ratings on Lichess (profile -> preferences -> show player ratings) for awhile, and just play. Rating anxiety could be contributing to your mood.
- usgroup 4y ago
  yeah exactly, or play puzzle rush or something. on the more sharp side, my advise to people who play chess because it makes them feel more/less intelligent is dont play chess.
- Akcium 4y ago
  I play in incognito mode, and I barely watch my rating. I mean, I know that "I'm somewhere in 1750" or "1850", but I'm not trying to get high rating. I just play when I eat and I don't care THAT much. The thing is that if I'm in a bad mood (I take antidepressants so to speak), then I don't focus, don't care much, blunt a lot and so on. But there are periods when I'm in good mood (hopefully I don't have bipolar disorder), and I'm still eating and playing in the same manner except that I focus more and tell myself that I'll destroy the opponent
flipcoder 4y ago
For me depression comes when I have low amounts of energy, which I've since realized is affected by my nutrition. If I eat too many carbs or sugar, I get extremely fatigued and then get depressed. It also causes me to daydream and have a hard time concentrating. Maybe keep a close eye on what you're eating/drinking and see if it's related.
than3 4y ago
Seems to me like a misattribution of an underlying factor. Correlation also isn't causative, and its more likely that the process of digestion is what's causing the difficulties. It takes a lot of energy to digest stuff and that can continue for several hours depending on the food, and your brain uses a lot of energy too. I'd first check off the physical stuff, then the wellness stuff, if you want to improve your game. Depending where you live, a lot of people have been exposed to things that can impact that as well. Heavy metals being a big one that isn't easily checked by a blood test because it doesn't float around in blood except in acute exposures, and tends to quickly lock up in fat or bones or so doctors have said. Also, people have biases where if they notice something they are more likely to notice it and potentially draw a link where there is none.
bjourne 4y ago
As someone who also plays chess online I think you have the causality wrong. You obsess way to much over your online rating causing your mood to worsen when you are on a losing streak. Big rating swings happens everybody and is mostly the result of chance. Stop obsessing about it if you can and your mood will improve.
usgroup 4y ago
i think anything which affects your concentration may affect your chess rating. id say that playing lots of competitive chess has a negative effect on mental health for many people. treating chess as an easily accessible proxy for your intelligence or worth as a person is a recipe for disaster. this may not apply to op but may be useful to others.

12 points by Akcium 4y ago

rossdavidh 4y ago

Or, you get really down when you're losing more at chess. :)

iamthirsty 4y ago

Or... this is jus anecdotal evidence that how you feel or how focused you are affects your rating. If I'm tired, distracted or not feeling well, of course I play worse and therefore lose rating. But when I'm feeling good and focused, my rating grows as normally. Just like anything else that depends on your mental &/or physical state. Not really news, no offense.

Shorel 4y ago

Seems normal/expected. In the weiqi/baduk/go world, it is said your opponent knows you better than yourself, because he notices all the changes in the way you play.

travelhead 4y ago

I definitely think you’re on to something. Chess rating, with sufficient number of games, over a long duration, is an excellent measure of progress or lack thereof. It could also serve as an early warning indicator for Alzheimer’s or neurodegenerative diseases, especially bullet (1 minute) chess which relies both on motor coordination and rapid thinking ability.

usgroup 4y ago
i really dont think it could .. if you pick a few random users and check their rating curves on lichess it doesnt take long to see that for many, their best rating was at some point in the past. i think this is because their interest in chess wanes over time and they lose rating rather than because their intelligence is decreasing. i think users that fixate on chess as an intelligence test risk misattributing their performance to their capacity because they do not understand all the factors of performance.

xedrac 4y ago

Chess takes a lot of energy and concentration, and when I'm feeling depressed, I have neither. So yeah, I'd say there's certainly a correlation between the two. As an experiment, you should try turning off all ratings on Lichess (profile -> preferences -> show player ratings) for awhile, and just play. Rating anxiety could be contributing to your mood.

usgroup 4y ago
yeah exactly, or play puzzle rush or something. on the more sharp side, my advise to people who play chess because it makes them feel more/less intelligent is dont play chess.
Akcium 4y ago
I play in incognito mode, and I barely watch my rating. I mean, I know that "I'm somewhere in 1750" or "1850", but I'm not trying to get high rating. I just play when I eat and I don't care THAT much. The thing is that if I'm in a bad mood (I take antidepressants so to speak), then I don't focus, don't care much, blunt a lot and so on. But there are periods when I'm in good mood (hopefully I don't have bipolar disorder), and I'm still eating and playing in the same manner except that I focus more and tell myself that I'll destroy the opponent

flipcoder 4y ago

For me depression comes when I have low amounts of energy, which I've since realized is affected by my nutrition. If I eat too many carbs or sugar, I get extremely fatigued and then get depressed. It also causes me to daydream and have a hard time concentrating. Maybe keep a close eye on what you're eating/drinking and see if it's related.

than3 4y ago

Seems to me like a misattribution of an underlying factor. Correlation also isn't causative, and its more likely that the process of digestion is what's causing the difficulties. It takes a lot of energy to digest stuff and that can continue for several hours depending on the food, and your brain uses a lot of energy too. I'd first check off the physical stuff, then the wellness stuff, if you want to improve your game. Depending where you live, a lot of people have been exposed to things that can impact that as well. Heavy metals being a big one that isn't easily checked by a blood test because it doesn't float around in blood except in acute exposures, and tends to quickly lock up in fat or bones or so doctors have said. Also, people have biases where if they notice something they are more likely to notice it and potentially draw a link where there is none.

bjourne 4y ago

As someone who also plays chess online I think you have the causality wrong. You obsess way to much over your online rating causing your mood to worsen when you are on a losing streak. Big rating swings happens everybody and is mostly the result of chance. Stop obsessing about it if you can and your mood will improve.

usgroup 4y ago

i think anything which affects your concentration may affect your chess rating. id say that playing lots of competitive chess has a negative effect on mental health for many people. treating chess as an easily accessible proxy for your intelligence or worth as a person is a recipe for disaster. this may not apply to op but may be useful to others.