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> I know a lot of people who have decided to have fewer kids than they otherwise would have because of the cost. How many? Nobody I know has done this with an

> I know a lot of people who have decided to have fewer kids than they otherwise would have because of the cost. How many? Nobody I know has done this with an actual spreadsheet of cost per child. What I see instead (in my professional friend circles) is people keep putting off having kids until their mid thirties because they end up so focused on their career. Then biology just makes is statistically much less likely to have lots of kids. So it’s not really, “we didn’t have our 3rd because I didn’t get that promotion.” Instead it’s, “we didn’t have kids until we had advanced careers because society for the past 3 decades said anything else was irresponsible.”

dumpsterlid 4y ago
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jefftk 4y ago
I can think of at least three people who've told me this is why they decided to stop at two children. I do think you're right, though, that a lot of people gesture at the cost as a reason not to have kids when even if you removed that barrier they still wouldn't. (In thinking about the effects of policies like this you need to think at the marginal parents: people who are close to the border on whether to have another kid and could be most easily swayed one way or the other.)
- mordechai9000 4y ago
  We could've afforded one or two more, but we stopped at two because it was a good balance for us between work, family, and personal interests. Neither one of us wanted to be a full time stay at home parent, and neither one of us wanted to subsume ourselves and our lives to the basic biological imperative just to have a bunch of kids. Kids are a big commitment and a lot of work. I feel like having two gave us enough leeway to have the time and energy to devote to them as individuals when they needed it. In a larger family, that might not work out as well.
yamtaddle 4y ago
Most of the people I know with kids would have had more if it wasn't so finances-wreckingly expensive. My wife and I would have had at least one more in that case, certainly. The ones who have no kids and don't want any—I don't know any of those for whom it would have made a difference, though. > What I see instead (in my professional friend circles) is people keep putting off having kids until their mid thirties because they end up so focused on their career. Some of them are doing this because having kids is so expensive. It doesn't seem possible to provide adequately for them without mid-career income (often two mid-career incomes).
- watwut 4y ago
  People with kids I know did not expressed that sentiment. I have heard some of them say that their actual number of kids is enough. The thing here is that people tend to be more comfortable expressing deeply private thoughts about kids only to those who they suspect have similar outlook.
com2kid 4y ago
> How many? Nobody I know has done this with an actual spreadsheet of cost per child. Everyone I know has done this with a spreadsheet of cost per child. Around abouts where I live, the cost is 40k+ per year per child, not counting the obscene amount of $ you need to spend for a house that has room for more than 1 child, that is going to cost you well over a million, and if you want it in an area with good schools, you are looking at nearly 2 million. So yeah, people here do the calculation, because not everyone can afford to dump 2 million on a house so they can have a second child.
- kjkjadksj 4y ago
  The calculations seem pretty subjective on whats actually essential if a kid actually costs you 40k a year. I don’t even spend that much on myself .
  - Konnstann 4y ago
    Presumably you aren't constantly growing and in constant need of new clothes, nor do you need to pay someone to look after you on a day to day basis a la childcare.
    - jefftk 4y ago
      These are on vastly different scales: we probably pay 50x more for childcare than clothes.
  - michaelt 4y ago
    Right, but you probably don't need childcare. Have a kid in California and you can look forward to paying $17000/year for infant care [1]. With California's median per-capita income of $41000/year [2] having two kids is an expensive business! [1] https://tootris.com/edu/blog/parents/cost-of-child-care-in-california-by-city-age-and-type-of-care-provider/ https://tootris.com/edu/blog/parents/cost-of-child-care-in-c... [2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/INC110221 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/INC110221
michaelt 4y ago
Maybe not a spreadsheet, but everyone with 1 kid knows if they're struggling to pay their bills - and if they are they won't have another. And everyone in a cramped home knows whether they can afford a home with an extra bedroom. And so on. And every couple knows whether they can afford for one of them to take a 5-year-plus career break while starting a big family.

dumpsterlid 4y ago

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jefftk 4y ago

I can think of at least three people who've told me this is why they decided to stop at two children. I do think you're right, though, that a lot of people gesture at the cost as a reason not to have kids when even if you removed that barrier they still wouldn't. (In thinking about the effects of policies like this you need to think at the marginal parents: people who are close to the border on whether to have another kid and could be most easily swayed one way or the other.)

mordechai9000 4y ago
We could've afforded one or two more, but we stopped at two because it was a good balance for us between work, family, and personal interests. Neither one of us wanted to be a full time stay at home parent, and neither one of us wanted to subsume ourselves and our lives to the basic biological imperative just to have a bunch of kids. Kids are a big commitment and a lot of work. I feel like having two gave us enough leeway to have the time and energy to devote to them as individuals when they needed it. In a larger family, that might not work out as well.

yamtaddle 4y ago

Most of the people I know with kids would have had more if it wasn't so finances-wreckingly expensive. My wife and I would have had at least one more in that case, certainly. The ones who have no kids and don't want any—I don't know any of those for whom it would have made a difference, though. > What I see instead (in my professional friend circles) is people keep putting off having kids until their mid thirties because they end up so focused on their career. Some of them are doing this because having kids is so expensive. It doesn't seem possible to provide adequately for them without mid-career income (often two mid-career incomes).

watwut 4y ago
People with kids I know did not expressed that sentiment. I have heard some of them say that their actual number of kids is enough. The thing here is that people tend to be more comfortable expressing deeply private thoughts about kids only to those who they suspect have similar outlook.

com2kid 4y ago

> How many? Nobody I know has done this with an actual spreadsheet of cost per child. Everyone I know has done this with a spreadsheet of cost per child. Around abouts where I live, the cost is 40k+ per year per child, not counting the obscene amount of $ you need to spend for a house that has room for more than 1 child, that is going to cost you well over a million, and if you want it in an area with good schools, you are looking at nearly 2 million. So yeah, people here do the calculation, because not everyone can afford to dump 2 million on a house so they can have a second child.

kjkjadksj 4y ago
The calculations seem pretty subjective on whats actually essential if a kid actually costs you 40k a year. I don’t even spend that much on myself .
- Konnstann 4y ago
  Presumably you aren't constantly growing and in constant need of new clothes, nor do you need to pay someone to look after you on a day to day basis a la childcare.
  - jefftk 4y ago
    These are on vastly different scales: we probably pay 50x more for childcare than clothes.
- michaelt 4y ago
  Right, but you probably don't need childcare. Have a kid in California and you can look forward to paying $17000/year for infant care [1]. With California's median per-capita income of $41000/year [2] having two kids is an expensive business! [1] https://tootris.com/edu/blog/parents/cost-of-child-care-in-california-by-city-age-and-type-of-care-provider/ https://tootris.com/edu/blog/parents/cost-of-child-care-in-c... [2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/INC110221 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/INC110221

michaelt 4y ago

Maybe not a spreadsheet, but everyone with 1 kid knows if they're struggling to pay their bills - and if they are they won't have another. And everyone in a cramped home knows whether they can afford a home with an extra bedroom. And so on. And every couple knows whether they can afford for one of them to take a 5-year-plus career break while starting a big family.