3 ms·

because taxation to fund a public good is not theft in your world there are only private security firms. if you're not up to date on your dues, oh well, they'l

because taxation to fund a public good is not theft in your world there are only private security firms. if you're not up to date on your dues, oh well, they'll happily watch you get robbed I guess. EDIT: I was unaware of the "wage theft" problem and assumed this was angling at "taxation is theft," my bad

pixl97 4y ago
What, you did not answer his question, and came up with some gibberish. https://www.epi.org/publication/employers-steal-billions-from-workers-paychecks-each-year/ https://www.epi.org/publication/employers-steal-billions-fro... >What this report finds: This report assesses the prevalence and magnitude of one form of wage theft—minimum wage violations (workers being paid at an effective hourly rate below the binding minimum wage)—in the 10 most populous U.S. states. We find that, in these states, 2.4 million workers lose $8 billion annually (an average of $3,300 per year for year-round workers) to minimum wage violations—nearly a quarter of their earned wages. This form of wage theft affects 17 percent of low-wage workers, with workers in all demographic categories being cheated out of pay.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - culi 4y ago
    Some stats: US Police have taken $68 billion without due process from citizens in the past 20 years https://boingboing.net/2020/12/21/us-police-have-stolen-68-billion-in-the-past-20-years-from-american-citizens-without-due-process.html https://boingboing.net/2020/12/21/us-police-have-stolen-68-b... I personally know a lot of houseless folks who've just had their wallets and personal belongings taken from them making it nearly impossible to get other forms of help.
    - pmarreck 4y ago
      This is a massive injustice. Any way to fight this?
      - culi 4y ago
        Unfortunately, this primarily affects houseless folks. And like most houseless people issues there's very little attention and resources aimed at this. I've put up houseless folks in Motel 6's before only to have the manager lock them out and keep their stuff, knowing full-well the police wouldn't help. I'd definitely encourage people to get involved locally in local mutual aid groups focused on houselessness. If for no other reason than to see it with their own ideas. Even people that grew up in poverty or lower class are often shocked to see the extent of human rights abuses happening under their own noses. After seeing it first-hand the will to tell all your friends and neighbors about it will find you Legislatively, the usual suspects do have related campaigns (i.e. ACLU's Criminal Law Reform Project) but even those only work on this issue as a related tangent. Local prison abolition groups often have more local campaigns but the effectiveness of that strategy is really up in the air. Some states have passed legislation against some of the worst abuses,[0] but I can tell you first hand that legislative victories rarely translate to on the ground changes in police behavior when it comes to houseless folks [0] https://endforfeiture.com/legislative-reforms/#ended-civil-forfeiture https://endforfeiture.com/legislative-reforms/#ended-civil-f...
- pmarreck 4y ago
  Ah, sorry, I thought they were angling at the "taxation is theft" libertarian thing. Was not aware of this separate and unfortunate phenomenon.
  - danuker 4y ago
    Cheers!
danuker 4y ago
Wikipedia: Wage theft is the failing to pay wages or provide employee benefits owed to an employee by contract or law. You have defended taxation, not wage theft.
- pmarreck 4y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34221450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34221450
culi 4y ago
GP was pointing out that things like wage theft is a much bigger priority over petty shoplifting. The combined value of all robberies (shoplifting, mugging, etc) in 2012 was $341 million while wage theft alone accounts for $933 million yet we spend far more trying to prevent the former and hardly do anything to prevent the latter which primarily affects minimum wage workers https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-forms-theft-workers/ https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-fo...
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  Wage theft is estimated at $15 billion annually in US per US government reporting
  - culi 4y ago
    I suppose it depends how you count https://laborstandards.sccgov.org/impact-issues/wage-theft https://laborstandards.sccgov.org/impact-issues/wage-theft I think the important bit is the ratio between wage theft and other forms of theft. Whichever way you slice it you basically get the same conclusion
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Where do begin with this First off it appears that wage theft is being enforced, as the $933 million is the amount RECOVERED for victims of wage theft, I would like the highlight that victims of property theft are almost never made completely whole, even with insurance. Wage theft, when reported and backed up with evidence is often aggressively pursued and most states have Treble damages statues for damages which is often why it is easy to get cogency litigation started for wage theft. Based on that is likely the amount of wages stolen by employers is on par with the total value of property stolen since the recovered amount would be 3x what amount stolen in the case of wages Futher their slight of hand in only adding the market value of the property taken instead of the economic loss suffered by the victim gives me red flags they are attempting to be dishonest in their evaluation. For example if a person has their work truck stolen they are out far more than just the value of the truck but are also out wages, income, time, etc. All of which have a value outside that of the market value for the actual property taken Wage theft is a serious matter and should be taken seriously. Luckily in most states the Dept of Labor does take is VERY seriously and most states have enacted laws to enable victims of wage theft to not only recover their wages but 3x their wages making it very enticing for lawyers to help victims without alot of upfront costs The whataboutism trying to derail the top of property crime enforcement has not teeth if you really look into.

pixl97 4y ago

What, you did not answer his question, and came up with some gibberish. https://www.epi.org/publication/employers-steal-billions-from-workers-paychecks-each-year/ https://www.epi.org/publication/employers-steal-billions-fro... >What this report finds: This report assesses the prevalence and magnitude of one form of wage theft—minimum wage violations (workers being paid at an effective hourly rate below the binding minimum wage)—in the 10 most populous U.S. states. We find that, in these states, 2.4 million workers lose $8 billion annually (an average of $3,300 per year for year-round workers) to minimum wage violations—nearly a quarter of their earned wages. This form of wage theft affects 17 percent of low-wage workers, with workers in all demographic categories being cheated out of pay.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
[flagged]
- culi 4y ago
  Some stats: US Police have taken $68 billion without due process from citizens in the past 20 years https://boingboing.net/2020/12/21/us-police-have-stolen-68-billion-in-the-past-20-years-from-american-citizens-without-due-process.html https://boingboing.net/2020/12/21/us-police-have-stolen-68-b... I personally know a lot of houseless folks who've just had their wallets and personal belongings taken from them making it nearly impossible to get other forms of help.
  - pmarreck 4y ago
    This is a massive injustice. Any way to fight this?
    - culi 4y ago
      Unfortunately, this primarily affects houseless folks. And like most houseless people issues there's very little attention and resources aimed at this. I've put up houseless folks in Motel 6's before only to have the manager lock them out and keep their stuff, knowing full-well the police wouldn't help. I'd definitely encourage people to get involved locally in local mutual aid groups focused on houselessness. If for no other reason than to see it with their own ideas. Even people that grew up in poverty or lower class are often shocked to see the extent of human rights abuses happening under their own noses. After seeing it first-hand the will to tell all your friends and neighbors about it will find you Legislatively, the usual suspects do have related campaigns (i.e. ACLU's Criminal Law Reform Project) but even those only work on this issue as a related tangent. Local prison abolition groups often have more local campaigns but the effectiveness of that strategy is really up in the air. Some states have passed legislation against some of the worst abuses,[0] but I can tell you first hand that legislative victories rarely translate to on the ground changes in police behavior when it comes to houseless folks [0] https://endforfeiture.com/legislative-reforms/#ended-civil-forfeiture https://endforfeiture.com/legislative-reforms/#ended-civil-f...
pmarreck 4y ago
Ah, sorry, I thought they were angling at the "taxation is theft" libertarian thing. Was not aware of this separate and unfortunate phenomenon.
- danuker 4y ago
  Cheers!

danuker 4y ago

Wikipedia: Wage theft is the failing to pay wages or provide employee benefits owed to an employee by contract or law. You have defended taxation, not wage theft.

pmarreck 4y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34221450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34221450

culi 4y ago

GP was pointing out that things like wage theft is a much bigger priority over petty shoplifting. The combined value of all robberies (shoplifting, mugging, etc) in 2012 was $341 million while wage theft alone accounts for $933 million yet we spend far more trying to prevent the former and hardly do anything to prevent the latter which primarily affects minimum wage workers https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-forms-theft-workers/ https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-fo...

wahnfrieden 4y ago
Wage theft is estimated at $15 billion annually in US per US government reporting
- culi 4y ago
  I suppose it depends how you count https://laborstandards.sccgov.org/impact-issues/wage-theft https://laborstandards.sccgov.org/impact-issues/wage-theft I think the important bit is the ratio between wage theft and other forms of theft. Whichever way you slice it you basically get the same conclusion
phpisthebest 4y ago
Where do begin with this First off it appears that wage theft is being enforced, as the $933 million is the amount RECOVERED for victims of wage theft, I would like the highlight that victims of property theft are almost never made completely whole, even with insurance. Wage theft, when reported and backed up with evidence is often aggressively pursued and most states have Treble damages statues for damages which is often why it is easy to get cogency litigation started for wage theft. Based on that is likely the amount of wages stolen by employers is on par with the total value of property stolen since the recovered amount would be 3x what amount stolen in the case of wages Futher their slight of hand in only adding the market value of the property taken instead of the economic loss suffered by the victim gives me red flags they are attempting to be dishonest in their evaluation. For example if a person has their work truck stolen they are out far more than just the value of the truck but are also out wages, income, time, etc. All of which have a value outside that of the market value for the actual property taken Wage theft is a serious matter and should be taken seriously. Luckily in most states the Dept of Labor does take is VERY seriously and most states have enacted laws to enable victims of wage theft to not only recover their wages but 3x their wages making it very enticing for lawyers to help victims without alot of upfront costs The whataboutism trying to derail the top of property crime enforcement has not teeth if you really look into.