3 ms·

As much as I hate modern frontend code, I question this narrative. What 20 year old GUI library is running circles around... anything?

by taeric 4y ago

wlesieutre 4y ago
There’s another discussion going on about how the older layers of Windows you dig into, the more useful the UI gets, perhaps that’s the narrative they’re thinking of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34216619 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34216619 I’m inclined to agree, older UI toolkits could make plenty productive UIs. But they aren’t good at following yearly evolving design fads, and webpages tend to lean heavily toward marketing and appearances over being more utilitarian.
- taeric 4y ago
  Older toolkits were great at single team creations. This, interestingly, did mean the person making it knew exactly how to use test it. I question whether the toolkits were actually better, or we just had fewer things to use test? Certainly fewer form factors. Granted, the decision to try and have a single code base for many different resolutions and such is, of course, questionable. Edit: directly to the point, is it the old toolkits that made better tools? Are those same toolkits used today? Pointing at older tools does not show that the toolkits were better.
steve1977 4y ago
Cocoa (macOS) for example
- taeric 4y ago
  And what modern applications written with it are running circles? Legit question.
  - marcellus23 4y ago
    Almost all of the apps bundled with macOS are written in Cocoa (some are written in Cocoa Touch, which is itself a nearly 15-year-old framework). And a great deal of excellent third-party apps -- off the top of my head, Transmit, Pixelmator, Day One, the Omni Group apps.
    - taeric 4y ago
      The bundled apps feels like an odd claim. I don't think of many of those that feel modern. That said, I'm probably not thinking of the right ones. Will try to take a peek at the rest of this list. I don't, oddly, use that many native Mac applications.
      - marcellus23 4y ago
        > I don't think of many of those that feel modern. This is a bit interesting to me, which bundled apps don't feel modern to you? Mail, Notes, Pages, Safari... they all seem modern enough to me.
        taeric 4y ago
        Mail has always felt like garbage to me. Notes, I will have to give a try again. Though, really, the entire "office suites" that everyone makes always feels off to me. I will full cede that that is just preference. Safari feels off, as well. But I'm pretty firmly in camp firefox. When I think bundled apps, I think of their notepad equivalent. The finder. The calculator. And... that is about it. I remember trying to make a script once, and that script editor left me very very lost.
sjducb 4y ago
Django, bootstrap and a sprinkling of jQuery works really well and results in simple code that can be maintained by a single dev. Bootstrap is only 11 years old. jQuery is 15 years old. Django is 18 years old. jQuery is used by 94% of the websites that use JavaScript. https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/javascript_library https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/javascript_library
- taeric 4y ago
  None of those are gui toolkits, though. At best, you are pointing to html working rather well at it. Though, that is more force of will from developers, as html was specifically not a front end toolkit at the outset.
- mmcnl 4y ago
  You're comparing apples and oranges.
mmcnl 4y ago
Is there a 10+ year old framework that does responsive UIs well?
- taeric 4y ago
  Is there a younger one? :)
  - mmcnl 4y ago
    Yes, the web. Responsive by design.
    - taeric 4y ago
      I thought the challenge was for one that does it well? :D
- spoils19 4y ago
  What's the point of having a responsive UI?

As much as I hate modern frontend code, I question this narrative. What 20 year old GUI library is running circles around... anything?

by taeric 4y ago

As much as I hate modern frontend code, I question this narrative. What 20 year old GUI library is running circles around... anything?

wlesieutre 4y ago

There’s another discussion going on about how the older layers of Windows you dig into, the more useful the UI gets, perhaps that’s the narrative they’re thinking of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34216619 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34216619 I’m inclined to agree, older UI toolkits could make plenty productive UIs. But they aren’t good at following yearly evolving design fads, and webpages tend to lean heavily toward marketing and appearances over being more utilitarian.

taeric 4y ago
Older toolkits were great at single team creations. This, interestingly, did mean the person making it knew exactly how to use test it. I question whether the toolkits were actually better, or we just had fewer things to use test? Certainly fewer form factors. Granted, the decision to try and have a single code base for many different resolutions and such is, of course, questionable. Edit: directly to the point, is it the old toolkits that made better tools? Are those same toolkits used today? Pointing at older tools does not show that the toolkits were better.

steve1977 4y ago

Cocoa (macOS) for example

taeric 4y ago
And what modern applications written with it are running circles? Legit question.
- marcellus23 4y ago
  Almost all of the apps bundled with macOS are written in Cocoa (some are written in Cocoa Touch, which is itself a nearly 15-year-old framework). And a great deal of excellent third-party apps -- off the top of my head, Transmit, Pixelmator, Day One, the Omni Group apps.
  - taeric 4y ago
    The bundled apps feels like an odd claim. I don't think of many of those that feel modern. That said, I'm probably not thinking of the right ones. Will try to take a peek at the rest of this list. I don't, oddly, use that many native Mac applications.
    - marcellus23 4y ago
      > I don't think of many of those that feel modern. This is a bit interesting to me, which bundled apps don't feel modern to you? Mail, Notes, Pages, Safari... they all seem modern enough to me.
      - taeric 4y ago
        Mail has always felt like garbage to me. Notes, I will have to give a try again. Though, really, the entire "office suites" that everyone makes always feels off to me. I will full cede that that is just preference. Safari feels off, as well. But I'm pretty firmly in camp firefox. When I think bundled apps, I think of their notepad equivalent. The finder. The calculator. And... that is about it. I remember trying to make a script once, and that script editor left me very very lost.

sjducb 4y ago

Django, bootstrap and a sprinkling of jQuery works really well and results in simple code that can be maintained by a single dev. Bootstrap is only 11 years old. jQuery is 15 years old. Django is 18 years old. jQuery is used by 94% of the websites that use JavaScript. https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/javascript_library https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/javascript_library

taeric 4y ago
None of those are gui toolkits, though. At best, you are pointing to html working rather well at it. Though, that is more force of will from developers, as html was specifically not a front end toolkit at the outset.
mmcnl 4y ago
You're comparing apples and oranges.

mmcnl 4y ago

Is there a 10+ year old framework that does responsive UIs well?

taeric 4y ago
Is there a younger one? :)
- mmcnl 4y ago
  Yes, the web. Responsive by design.
  - taeric 4y ago
    I thought the challenge was for one that does it well? :D
spoils19 4y ago
What's the point of having a responsive UI?