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I remember cheating was absolutely rampant among East and south Asian students when I went through undergrad (a mere 3 years ago) to the point where something l

I remember cheating was absolutely rampant among East and south Asian students when I went through undergrad (a mere 3 years ago) to the point where something like 70% of all honor cases (cheating investigations by the student council) were this demographic - multiples their proportion of the student body. Many got away with it and had excellent GPAs as a result, no doubt a credit to their job prospects, and all it cost was their “academic integrity” (if such a thing matters at all anymore)

gnicholas 4y ago
Was this among Asian immigrants or Asian American students? Separately, the student council investigates cheating allegations? I'd think there would be confidentiality concerns that would prevent student inquiries.
- eldritch_4ier 4y ago
  Asian immigrants especially, but some 2nd generation+ students who come from Asian communities in the area who were still pretty traditional. I personally had to report 4 south Asian students blatantly cheating for an exam, and had a cheating ring of maybe 8 East Asian international students busted in my 2nd semester honors math course. On student council: there was significant student govt at my school. Student council, but also student honor councils and student justice councils. Honor handled all cheating cases, justice handled disciplinary cases. I’m not sure how they handled confidentiality, but even as a resident advisor you can encounter some sensitive stuff and the culture was one of “student run society” with the professional staff to guide it. This was at a “public Ivy”
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    Very interesting! How were the students cheating? In real time on exams, or collaborating on take-home work? Do you think these demographics cheated more than other students, or got caught more? What’s a “public ivy”? The Wikipedia entry claims this term includes UC Irvine/Riverside/etc., which seems like a stretch. Is there a tighter or more well-known definition?
    - eldritch_4ier 4y ago
      I'm not sure on the cheating ring or other cases, but for the one I witnessed it was blatantly sharing each others exams + answers during the busy "turn in your exams" moment of a crowded auditorium. One East Asian student I talked to said it was a cultural difference, cheating in academics just wasn't considered that big a deal and very common in competitive districts (international students from China or India for instance, or competition at top high schools like Thomas Jefferson). Basically "everyone does it and if you don't you'll be left behind". It was a top 20 school but not ivy. Have always heard "public ivy" and it competes for "top public university", near or topping the list most years.
- asciimike 4y ago
  At my school, we had a disciplinary council composed of several students and several faculty members, which met monthly to handle any cases of academic misconduct. Confidentiality was expected and we were reminded of this fact at the beginning and end of every meeting. The vast majority of cases were "simple cheating" (e.g. sharing answers during a test, collaborating when collaboration was specifically forbidden). Of these, a large percent were foreign exchange students, who explained the behavior as either a difference in the nature of education (individualist in the US vs collectivist in their home country) or a claimed misunderstanding of the instructions due to language barriers (despite reasonable TOEFL scores required to be admitted). From talking with faculty who had served on the committee for longer than me, while those were occasionally the issue, more often than not students cheated for one of two reasons: 1) external pressure for them to get a good grade (e.g. parents paid tuition proportionally to GPA, or punished for poor grades), or 2) desire for credential over knowledge or apathy towards the education itself.
  - rvba 4y ago
    Then they become research professors and make up data in their "research". There is a crisis where the papers cannot be replicated. Probably because they are all lies. I dont understand why there isnt some institution who just sits and replicates papers all day.

gnicholas 4y ago

Was this among Asian immigrants or Asian American students? Separately, the student council investigates cheating allegations? I'd think there would be confidentiality concerns that would prevent student inquiries.

eldritch_4ier 4y ago
Asian immigrants especially, but some 2nd generation+ students who come from Asian communities in the area who were still pretty traditional. I personally had to report 4 south Asian students blatantly cheating for an exam, and had a cheating ring of maybe 8 East Asian international students busted in my 2nd semester honors math course. On student council: there was significant student govt at my school. Student council, but also student honor councils and student justice councils. Honor handled all cheating cases, justice handled disciplinary cases. I’m not sure how they handled confidentiality, but even as a resident advisor you can encounter some sensitive stuff and the culture was one of “student run society” with the professional staff to guide it. This was at a “public Ivy”
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Very interesting! How were the students cheating? In real time on exams, or collaborating on take-home work? Do you think these demographics cheated more than other students, or got caught more? What’s a “public ivy”? The Wikipedia entry claims this term includes UC Irvine/Riverside/etc., which seems like a stretch. Is there a tighter or more well-known definition?
  - eldritch_4ier 4y ago
    I'm not sure on the cheating ring or other cases, but for the one I witnessed it was blatantly sharing each others exams + answers during the busy "turn in your exams" moment of a crowded auditorium. One East Asian student I talked to said it was a cultural difference, cheating in academics just wasn't considered that big a deal and very common in competitive districts (international students from China or India for instance, or competition at top high schools like Thomas Jefferson). Basically "everyone does it and if you don't you'll be left behind". It was a top 20 school but not ivy. Have always heard "public ivy" and it competes for "top public university", near or topping the list most years.
asciimike 4y ago
At my school, we had a disciplinary council composed of several students and several faculty members, which met monthly to handle any cases of academic misconduct. Confidentiality was expected and we were reminded of this fact at the beginning and end of every meeting. The vast majority of cases were "simple cheating" (e.g. sharing answers during a test, collaborating when collaboration was specifically forbidden). Of these, a large percent were foreign exchange students, who explained the behavior as either a difference in the nature of education (individualist in the US vs collectivist in their home country) or a claimed misunderstanding of the instructions due to language barriers (despite reasonable TOEFL scores required to be admitted). From talking with faculty who had served on the committee for longer than me, while those were occasionally the issue, more often than not students cheated for one of two reasons: 1) external pressure for them to get a good grade (e.g. parents paid tuition proportionally to GPA, or punished for poor grades), or 2) desire for credential over knowledge or apathy towards the education itself.
- rvba 4y ago
  Then they become research professors and make up data in their "research". There is a crisis where the papers cannot be replicated. Probably because they are all lies. I dont understand why there isnt some institution who just sits and replicates papers all day.