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First, I like this model of private policing. In the instance the article sites, the security force went at the heart of the problem rather than throwing someon

First, I like this model of private policing. In the instance the article sites, the security force went at the heart of the problem rather than throwing someone into a cage. That’s a good thing. Second, if you have a failure from a public institution, a private alternative is a good thing. You get more competition, which often yields better results. Third, this isn’t very thought out, but trimming public police forces and dedicating funding and staff to more serious types of crime while allowing private police to handle petty crime could be an interesting use of resources.

WarOnPrivacy 4y ago
> I like this model of private policing. In the instance the article sites, the security force went at the heart of the problem rather than throwing someone into a cage. That’s a good thing. I mean this with all sincerity and zero snark: I barely recognize today's America in this story. There's a dynamic with both LEO & Privatization and it isn't leading to bulk mistreatment of vulnerable people. This lack of mistreatment is almost startling in how unfamiliar it feels.
landemva 4y ago
Fourth, if private security violates your rights you can sue. When government violates your rights they typically get the case dismissed due to 'qualified immunity' which USSC made up in 1970s.
- mcbutterbunz 4y ago
  Until the lines get blurred and an off-duty police officer starts moonlighting for private security who violates your rights while you're in commission of a crime and now the question of qualified immunity while off-duty becomes a question. It doesn't seem too unlikely where in the not-so-distant future these private security companies would be made up of accredited police officers.
  - landemva 4y ago
    > now the question of qualified immunity while off-duty becomes a question. I am curious if there is case law to support your theory. It would be hilarious to read about a city or county attorney trying to file a motion to dismiss, when the city or county would not be a party to the case.
  - petronio 4y ago
    > It doesn't seem too unlikely where in the not-so-distant future these private security companies would be made up of accredited police officers. No need to look to the future: this has been going on for a long time and is pretty common. Even though case law has built up, to my understanding it still gets pretty messy.
hinkley 4y ago
If you remember your police history, the title of this story is wrong. It’s re-privatization of the police force. Giving the benefit of the doubt to your comments, there is one “private police force” that is doing well (and good) enough that people have started copying it, and that’s the Cahoots program from White Bird Clinic in Eugene Oregon. They are somewhat of a third party intervention system. And as a nonprofit they are probably more accurately a public than private sector organization, which might be the key here to avoiding conflicts of interest with respect to the common good. I don’t want bands of hired thugs or the return of the Pinkertons. That’s basically step 2 on the route to a Stephensonian dystopia.
- BirAdam 4y ago
  Well, the Pinkertons were only semi-private. They got a federal contract from the Department of Justice in 1871, and it’s after that point that they hit the largest and most powerful state. That’s also when they began getting involved in violently suppressing strikes. This is the opposite of the actions mentioned in the article here. Additionally, the government moved against the Pinkertons as a result of their bad behavior.
rjtavares 4y ago
I'm shocked (but not totally surprised) at the response to the concept on HN. I cannot even imagine how one could think this is a good thing - necessary, I can understand, but not a good thing. I don't even know how to argue that this is bad. I'll just lose all my faith in society if this ever happens where I live.
- binvlad 4y ago
  [dead]
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  I support private police because they insulate my family from others horrible policy choices. Life isn’t something you can retry. If there aren’t private police options, I’ll just produce and distribute illegal arms, like many already do. Johnny Methhead gets 0 control over my life, regardless of how his apologists vote.
- BirAdam 4y ago
  I’m curious as to your thoughts if you care to share. I’m not really a partisan on anything, but I am strongly distrustful of both megacorps and government.
  - rjtavares 4y ago
    Equality before the law is a basic principle of Democracy. A privatized police will not, by design, apply the law equally to all people. That's unacceptable.
    - BirAdam 4y ago
      The current system does not apply the law equally. While I agree in principle, reality doesn’t match the reported ideal. This isn’t due just to police forces, but also to judges, juries, and the quality of lawyers. The rich, the good looking, and the well spoken have a distinct advantage in the court system. Additionally, most people never have their day in court, they’re instead pressured and intimidated into plea bargaining.
thrillgore 4y ago
It's January 2nd and we're already at Peak HN. I'd rather have a semi-accountable government service than a private one in my cyberpunk hell.
- BirAdam 4y ago
  Well, personally, I don’t think that police are largely held accountable for the bad actions they sometimes take. Also, the article doesn’t mention anything approximating a cyberpunk hell.
- EFreethought 4y ago
  When you start cargo-culting Chesterton's Fence, then you are at peak HN.

WarOnPrivacy 4y ago

> I like this model of private policing. In the instance the article sites, the security force went at the heart of the problem rather than throwing someone into a cage. That’s a good thing. I mean this with all sincerity and zero snark: I barely recognize today's America in this story. There's a dynamic with both LEO & Privatization and it isn't leading to bulk mistreatment of vulnerable people. This lack of mistreatment is almost startling in how unfamiliar it feels.

landemva 4y ago

Fourth, if private security violates your rights you can sue. When government violates your rights they typically get the case dismissed due to 'qualified immunity' which USSC made up in 1970s.

mcbutterbunz 4y ago
Until the lines get blurred and an off-duty police officer starts moonlighting for private security who violates your rights while you're in commission of a crime and now the question of qualified immunity while off-duty becomes a question. It doesn't seem too unlikely where in the not-so-distant future these private security companies would be made up of accredited police officers.
- landemva 4y ago
  > now the question of qualified immunity while off-duty becomes a question. I am curious if there is case law to support your theory. It would be hilarious to read about a city or county attorney trying to file a motion to dismiss, when the city or county would not be a party to the case.
- petronio 4y ago
  > It doesn't seem too unlikely where in the not-so-distant future these private security companies would be made up of accredited police officers. No need to look to the future: this has been going on for a long time and is pretty common. Even though case law has built up, to my understanding it still gets pretty messy.

hinkley 4y ago

If you remember your police history, the title of this story is wrong. It’s re-privatization of the police force. Giving the benefit of the doubt to your comments, there is one “private police force” that is doing well (and good) enough that people have started copying it, and that’s the Cahoots program from White Bird Clinic in Eugene Oregon. They are somewhat of a third party intervention system. And as a nonprofit they are probably more accurately a public than private sector organization, which might be the key here to avoiding conflicts of interest with respect to the common good. I don’t want bands of hired thugs or the return of the Pinkertons. That’s basically step 2 on the route to a Stephensonian dystopia.

BirAdam 4y ago
Well, the Pinkertons were only semi-private. They got a federal contract from the Department of Justice in 1871, and it’s after that point that they hit the largest and most powerful state. That’s also when they began getting involved in violently suppressing strikes. This is the opposite of the actions mentioned in the article here. Additionally, the government moved against the Pinkertons as a result of their bad behavior.

rjtavares 4y ago

I'm shocked (but not totally surprised) at the response to the concept on HN. I cannot even imagine how one could think this is a good thing - necessary, I can understand, but not a good thing. I don't even know how to argue that this is bad. I'll just lose all my faith in society if this ever happens where I live.

binvlad 4y ago
[dead]
throwayyy479087 4y ago
I support private police because they insulate my family from others horrible policy choices. Life isn’t something you can retry. If there aren’t private police options, I’ll just produce and distribute illegal arms, like many already do. Johnny Methhead gets 0 control over my life, regardless of how his apologists vote.
BirAdam 4y ago
I’m curious as to your thoughts if you care to share. I’m not really a partisan on anything, but I am strongly distrustful of both megacorps and government.
- rjtavares 4y ago
  Equality before the law is a basic principle of Democracy. A privatized police will not, by design, apply the law equally to all people. That's unacceptable.
  - BirAdam 4y ago
    The current system does not apply the law equally. While I agree in principle, reality doesn’t match the reported ideal. This isn’t due just to police forces, but also to judges, juries, and the quality of lawyers. The rich, the good looking, and the well spoken have a distinct advantage in the court system. Additionally, most people never have their day in court, they’re instead pressured and intimidated into plea bargaining.

thrillgore 4y ago

It's January 2nd and we're already at Peak HN. I'd rather have a semi-accountable government service than a private one in my cyberpunk hell.

BirAdam 4y ago
Well, personally, I don’t think that police are largely held accountable for the bad actions they sometimes take. Also, the article doesn’t mention anything approximating a cyberpunk hell.
EFreethought 4y ago
When you start cargo-culting Chesterton's Fence, then you are at peak HN.