5 ms·

Are Vaccines Fueling New Covid Variants?

26 points by pavanyara 4y ago

pavanyara 4y ago
https://archive.is/oYG0X https://archive.is/oYG0X
ImHereToVote 4y ago
This sounds verboten.
- GenerocUsername 4y ago
  News is the content someone doesn't want printed. The rest is advertising.
  - ars 4y ago
    Note that this was published in the opinion section.
lern_too_spel 4y ago
That's a question that Ms. Finley would ask epidemiologists instead of the Opinion readers of the WSJ if she had any competence as a journalist. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/vaccines-will-not-produce-worse-variants https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/vaccines-will-not-...
- VagueMag 4y ago
  > 10 Sept 2021 lol The piece references several different recent publications.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    The piece references and wrongly interprets recent publications instead of asking epidemiologists what they mean. Variants emerge by mutation and survive by evading immunity, both natural immunity from people who have gotten previous variants and vaccine-induced immunity. The only way to slow this is by reducing mutations, which means vaccinating as many people as possible, since gaining natural immunity means allowing the virus to replicate and thereby create more mutations.
    - VagueMag 4y ago
      Where specifically in the article do you believe that the publications are wrongly interpreted? Your extremely naive and simplified view of how vaccination, mutation, and immune escape work is contradicted by many observed phenomena in epidemiology, which is often rife with subtle feedback mechanisms and surprising or counterintuitive outcomes. Not to mention the fact that the vaccines can't be reducing the number of mutations since they aren't preventing infections.
      - lern_too_spel 4y ago
        > Where specifically in the article do you believe that the publications are wrongly interpreted? "Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution." "Experts nevertheless claim that boosters improve protection against XBB. That’s disinformation, to use their favored term." (Hilariously, her assertion that this is disinformation is directly contradicted by the previous sentence she herself wrote: "A bivalent booster only slightly increased antibodies against XBB.") "But experts refuse to concede that boosters have yielded diminishing benefits and may even have made individuals and the population as a whole more vulnerable to new variants like XBB." A competent journalist would have asked the experts why. "The Biden administration’s monomaniacal focus on vaccines over new treatments has left the highest-risk Americans more vulnerable to new variants. Why doesn’t that seem to worry the experts?" Once again, she clearly states that she knows that the experts have interpreted the data differently. I don't know how you could have asked me an easier question. > Not to mention the fact that the vaccines can't be reducing the number of mutations since they aren't preventing infections. The data show that not only are they vaccines reducing the number of infections, but they are reducing the lengths of infections that do occur, reducing the number of copies made and thereby reducing the number of mutations.
monkeybutler 4y ago
This seems to be presenting an inverted fact. The places with higher vaccination have less variants, this is because most are insufficiently fit. There are less possibilities of hybrids (or complex evolutionary paths) if only the most significant strain is viable.
moistly 4y ago
This opinion piece is written by an absolutely unqualified talking head, not an epidemiologist. > Allysia Finley is a member of the Journal's Editorial Board. Ms. Finley joined The Wall Street Journal in 2009 after graduating from Stanford University with a bachelor’s degree in American Studies. During college, she edited the opinions section for The Stanford Review and wrote columns for The Orange County Register. Lacking any science training whatsoever, she is less qualified to write this column than most HN readers.
thy77 4y ago
Yes, obviously. Why, were you born yesterday?
tw98521358 4y ago
[flagged]

26 points by pavanyara 4y ago

pavanyara 4y ago

https://archive.is/oYG0X https://archive.is/oYG0X

ImHereToVote 4y ago

This sounds verboten.

GenerocUsername 4y ago
News is the content someone doesn't want printed. The rest is advertising.
- ars 4y ago
  Note that this was published in the opinion section.

lern_too_spel 4y ago

That's a question that Ms. Finley would ask epidemiologists instead of the Opinion readers of the WSJ if she had any competence as a journalist. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/vaccines-will-not-produce-worse-variants https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/vaccines-will-not-...

VagueMag 4y ago
> 10 Sept 2021 lol The piece references several different recent publications.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  The piece references and wrongly interprets recent publications instead of asking epidemiologists what they mean. Variants emerge by mutation and survive by evading immunity, both natural immunity from people who have gotten previous variants and vaccine-induced immunity. The only way to slow this is by reducing mutations, which means vaccinating as many people as possible, since gaining natural immunity means allowing the virus to replicate and thereby create more mutations.
  - VagueMag 4y ago
    Where specifically in the article do you believe that the publications are wrongly interpreted? Your extremely naive and simplified view of how vaccination, mutation, and immune escape work is contradicted by many observed phenomena in epidemiology, which is often rife with subtle feedback mechanisms and surprising or counterintuitive outcomes. Not to mention the fact that the vaccines can't be reducing the number of mutations since they aren't preventing infections.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      > Where specifically in the article do you believe that the publications are wrongly interpreted? "Growing evidence also suggests that repeated vaccinations may make people more susceptible to XBB and could be fueling the virus’s rapid evolution." "Experts nevertheless claim that boosters improve protection against XBB. That’s disinformation, to use their favored term." (Hilariously, her assertion that this is disinformation is directly contradicted by the previous sentence she herself wrote: "A bivalent booster only slightly increased antibodies against XBB.") "But experts refuse to concede that boosters have yielded diminishing benefits and may even have made individuals and the population as a whole more vulnerable to new variants like XBB." A competent journalist would have asked the experts why. "The Biden administration’s monomaniacal focus on vaccines over new treatments has left the highest-risk Americans more vulnerable to new variants. Why doesn’t that seem to worry the experts?" Once again, she clearly states that she knows that the experts have interpreted the data differently. I don't know how you could have asked me an easier question. > Not to mention the fact that the vaccines can't be reducing the number of mutations since they aren't preventing infections. The data show that not only are they vaccines reducing the number of infections, but they are reducing the lengths of infections that do occur, reducing the number of copies made and thereby reducing the number of mutations.

monkeybutler 4y ago

This seems to be presenting an inverted fact. The places with higher vaccination have less variants, this is because most are insufficiently fit. There are less possibilities of hybrids (or complex evolutionary paths) if only the most significant strain is viable.

moistly 4y ago

This opinion piece is written by an absolutely unqualified talking head, not an epidemiologist. > Allysia Finley is a member of the Journal's Editorial Board. Ms. Finley joined The Wall Street Journal in 2009 after graduating from Stanford University with a bachelor’s degree in American Studies. During college, she edited the opinions section for The Stanford Review and wrote columns for The Orange County Register. Lacking any science training whatsoever, she is less qualified to write this column than most HN readers.

thy77 4y ago

Yes, obviously. Why, were you born yesterday?

tw98521358 4y ago

[flagged]