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How would you incentivize nodes long-term without a reward/token system?

by dsco 4y ago

croes 4y ago
That's more cryptocurrency than blockchain. Blockchain as such has nothing to do with the costs of a node and incentives to run one
- aliqot 4y ago
  "That's just the nose, see the nose can exist discretely without the finger to pick it."
wongarsu 4y ago
Bittorrent basically runs on social norms, and people's willingness to help their community. Or people go to private trackers, where contributing is a requirement for being in the community and having access to its resources. Blockchains are built under the assumption that everyone is selfish and untrustworthy. Which is a decent assumption when building a crypto currency, but that doesn't mean that every system has to run like that.
- hazebooth 4y ago
  As much as I like private trackers, very few use the ratio-less model to protect against serial leechers. Typically on a tracker you’re given a currency (although not as sound as some e-coins) and can use that to influence your upload or download statistics, which in turn affect your ratio. Some trackers might employ rules where your user class has to have a certain ratio, or else you’ll lose privileges like certain forums or even the ability to download at all. (The trackers are private and can control which peers you can see)
vintermann 4y ago
That's a different question. But BitTorrent does fine with simple tit-for-tat rules, no tranferable tokens required.
britneybitch 4y ago
A token system can incentivize cooperation in a hostile environment with selfish nodes. But in a friendly environment you might not need the same level of incentives. I see some similarity here to the world of private torrent trackers. You want a Linux ISO, I want a Linux ISO, we're all working towards the same goal. So we're already incentivized to cooperate, without getting money involved. And trackers also have things like minimum seeding ratios to keep people honest. In the case of AI, you and I both want to generate images, so we're also working towards the same goal, so let's help each other out so both of our workloads finish faster. Maybe idealistic, but I think it could work.
CodexArcana 4y ago
In the heyday of BitTorrent sharing was the incentive, and still is I imagine. We don't need to financialize everything.

How would you incentivize nodes long-term without a reward/token system?

by dsco 4y ago

How would you incentivize nodes long-term without a reward/token system?

That's more cryptocurrency than blockchain. Blockchain as such has nothing to do with the costs of a node and incentives to run one

aliqot 4y ago
"That's just the nose, see the nose can exist discretely without the finger to pick it."

wongarsu 4y ago

Bittorrent basically runs on social norms, and people's willingness to help their community. Or people go to private trackers, where contributing is a requirement for being in the community and having access to its resources. Blockchains are built under the assumption that everyone is selfish and untrustworthy. Which is a decent assumption when building a crypto currency, but that doesn't mean that every system has to run like that.

hazebooth 4y ago
As much as I like private trackers, very few use the ratio-less model to protect against serial leechers. Typically on a tracker you’re given a currency (although not as sound as some e-coins) and can use that to influence your upload or download statistics, which in turn affect your ratio. Some trackers might employ rules where your user class has to have a certain ratio, or else you’ll lose privileges like certain forums or even the ability to download at all. (The trackers are private and can control which peers you can see)

vintermann 4y ago

That's a different question. But BitTorrent does fine with simple tit-for-tat rules, no tranferable tokens required.

britneybitch 4y ago

A token system can incentivize cooperation in a hostile environment with selfish nodes. But in a friendly environment you might not need the same level of incentives. I see some similarity here to the world of private torrent trackers. You want a Linux ISO, I want a Linux ISO, we're all working towards the same goal. So we're already incentivized to cooperate, without getting money involved. And trackers also have things like minimum seeding ratios to keep people honest. In the case of AI, you and I both want to generate images, so we're also working towards the same goal, so let's help each other out so both of our workloads finish faster. Maybe idealistic, but I think it could work.

CodexArcana 4y ago

In the heyday of BitTorrent sharing was the incentive, and still is I imagine. We don't need to financialize everything.