5 ms·

This is a very American perspective. The rest of the world has used bank transfers for decades, and the risk is very well understood. Online banking usually req

by fsh 4y ago

This is a very American perspective. The rest of the world has used bank transfers for decades, and the risk is very well understood. Online banking usually requires 2FA via a phone app, or using the bank card with a separate reader. 2FA via SMS has been mostly phased out due to the risk of SIM-swapping. Bank transfers are also usually commission free, and are instant in many countries.

maratc 4y ago
For a perspective, I'm not American, and I don't feel comfortable giving my bank details to random people. I can also get checks with dates in the future, and know that I will collect the money (this way or another). If someone promises you a future money transfer, you can't be sure that they will actually deliver the way you can when you have their check in hand.
- kevincox 4y ago
  Checks have your bank details on them. It's the funny numbers at the bottom. If they didn't how would the receiving bank be able to get the money from your account?
  - maratc 4y ago
    When I want someone (who needs to pay me) to give me the check, my bank account details are not supplied to them. I just deposit their check. The check has their bank details printed on it, not mine. When I want someone (who needs to pay me) to transfer money into my account, I need to provide them with my account number. In the first case, my bank details are kept private, but in the second case, not so much.
    - shortcake27 4y ago
      In Australia you can make instant bank transfers using phone numbers, email addresses, ABNs etc. Although I’ve never been too bothered about giving out my bank account details - they’re designed to be public.
- mbesto 4y ago
  > I don't feel comfortable giving my bank details to random people. What specifically makes you feel uncomfortable? If the person is truly "random" then guessing your account number is just as "random", no?
  - maratc 4y ago
    > What specifically makes you feel uncomfortable? The thought that they can call my bank, impersonate me, and drain my account with no recourse for me. That should be much harder if they don't know my bank details to begin with.
    - mbesto 4y ago
      > impersonate me No bank should be using your account details as a secret used to identify you.
      - maratc 4y ago
        Banks use other secrets, like my birthday, or the date my national ID card was issued on. These can be found out by fraudsters, too. But not having my bank details public helps.
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  You never give your bank details out to anyone. For example with UPI the only thing you need to send are disposable virtual addresses which are basically like email IDs. By themselves these IDs can't authorize any transactions which is always 2FA
mindslight 4y ago
Okay, but what happens if your device(s) have been compromised, and a payment is misdirected? From the perspective of suffering large bureaucracies, procedures with obvious possibilities of failure have an advantage in that the bureaucracy will have to entertain the idea that something exceptional happened, rather than simply running your edge case under their steam roller. I admit this might be a very USian view, as we have extremely unaccountable bureaucracies here.
- adriancr 4y ago
  > Okay, but what happens if your device(s) have been compromised, and a payment is misdirected? File a police report, same as in article with washed /rewritten check... Then figure out how you got compromised so it doesnt happen again.
  - maratc 4y ago
    The only difference from the check fraud is this: since the fraudsters — having the password and OTP — are indistinguishable from you, the bank may not return your money (out of his pocket). And since the money was already cashed out, there's nowhere to get it back from. Bottom line, you will eat the damage.
    - adriancr 4y ago
      How is this different from washed check? That is also 'indistinguishable from you', check is valid and has your signature. In both cases you have to hope that funds can be clawed back. The author does point that it took 3 months to get funds back and it would have been difficult if he could not prove checks as fraud. I would also rate difficulty of grabbing otp and password as more difficult then intercepting an envelope. (outside cases where people willfully give them away to 'tech support'... in which case they might as well write a blank check) Police already being aware of 30+ cases in author's context does say its widespread issue even for savvy persons. I could fall victim by simply mailing a check, whereas I can't imagine having my bank account hacked.

by fsh 4y ago

maratc 4y ago

For a perspective, I'm not American, and I don't feel comfortable giving my bank details to random people. I can also get checks with dates in the future, and know that I will collect the money (this way or another). If someone promises you a future money transfer, you can't be sure that they will actually deliver the way you can when you have their check in hand.

kevincox 4y ago
Checks have your bank details on them. It's the funny numbers at the bottom. If they didn't how would the receiving bank be able to get the money from your account?
- maratc 4y ago
  When I want someone (who needs to pay me) to give me the check, my bank account details are not supplied to them. I just deposit their check. The check has their bank details printed on it, not mine. When I want someone (who needs to pay me) to transfer money into my account, I need to provide them with my account number. In the first case, my bank details are kept private, but in the second case, not so much.
  - shortcake27 4y ago
    In Australia you can make instant bank transfers using phone numbers, email addresses, ABNs etc. Although I’ve never been too bothered about giving out my bank account details - they’re designed to be public.
mbesto 4y ago
> I don't feel comfortable giving my bank details to random people. What specifically makes you feel uncomfortable? If the person is truly "random" then guessing your account number is just as "random", no?
- maratc 4y ago
  > What specifically makes you feel uncomfortable? The thought that they can call my bank, impersonate me, and drain my account with no recourse for me. That should be much harder if they don't know my bank details to begin with.
  - mbesto 4y ago
    > impersonate me No bank should be using your account details as a secret used to identify you.
    - maratc 4y ago
      Banks use other secrets, like my birthday, or the date my national ID card was issued on. These can be found out by fraudsters, too. But not having my bank details public helps.
cuteboy19 4y ago
You never give your bank details out to anyone. For example with UPI the only thing you need to send are disposable virtual addresses which are basically like email IDs. By themselves these IDs can't authorize any transactions which is always 2FA

mindslight 4y ago

Okay, but what happens if your device(s) have been compromised, and a payment is misdirected? From the perspective of suffering large bureaucracies, procedures with obvious possibilities of failure have an advantage in that the bureaucracy will have to entertain the idea that something exceptional happened, rather than simply running your edge case under their steam roller. I admit this might be a very USian view, as we have extremely unaccountable bureaucracies here.

adriancr 4y ago
> Okay, but what happens if your device(s) have been compromised, and a payment is misdirected? File a police report, same as in article with washed /rewritten check... Then figure out how you got compromised so it doesnt happen again.
- maratc 4y ago
  The only difference from the check fraud is this: since the fraudsters — having the password and OTP — are indistinguishable from you, the bank may not return your money (out of his pocket). And since the money was already cashed out, there's nowhere to get it back from. Bottom line, you will eat the damage.
  - adriancr 4y ago
    How is this different from washed check? That is also 'indistinguishable from you', check is valid and has your signature. In both cases you have to hope that funds can be clawed back. The author does point that it took 3 months to get funds back and it would have been difficult if he could not prove checks as fraud. I would also rate difficulty of grabbing otp and password as more difficult then intercepting an envelope. (outside cases where people willfully give them away to 'tech support'... in which case they might as well write a blank check) Police already being aware of 30+ cases in author's context does say its widespread issue even for savvy persons. I could fall victim by simply mailing a check, whereas I can't imagine having my bank account hacked.