4 ms·

Doing it on purpose is the part that feels sociopathic (because it is). Working together 40 hours a week for years at a time should provide plenty of opportunit

Doing it on purpose is the part that feels sociopathic (because it is). Working together 40 hours a week for years at a time should provide plenty of opportunity to become intimate with your coworkers. We don't need a line item in the department budget that says "fun/friendship".

guywhocodes 4y ago
This, working in big tech I've found that the activities are also incredibly infantile and marketed as such. Yes I work with software, no I don't expect everything to be a computer game or "cute".
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  It's doubly infantilizing: First, management assumes that their pet programmers are little babies that need play dates with the other office furniture (to mix several metaphors). Second, they assume that the only way to help us is to let us expense a round of laser tag.
- spacemadness 4y ago
  That’s because it’s incredibly safe to go into Disney mode. I hate it too as it makes me feel like they’re treating me like a fragile 12 year old.
pydry 4y ago
>Working together 40 hours a week for years at a time should provide plenty of opportunity Yeah, but when starting a new project affords almost none. Should it remain like that for years? I hate the "corporate fun" exercises as much as the next guy but without something to build trust most teams flounder. Japananese/South Korean salaryman drinking culture (or any after work drinks culture) works well at this coz alcohol naturally makes people vulnerable. It obviously has its own problems.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- irrational 4y ago
  Work build trust. Trust is built as I see your work output and the effort you are putting in. I’ve never developer trust in anyone through an activity outside of work. I have come away with a worse opinion of some people as I see how they behave outside of work.
  - ElevenLathe 4y ago
    Exactly. Just because it would be convenient for management if $200 worth of Dave & Busters could turn a group of strangers into a well-functioning team does not make it so. Sure, you can try it, but it won't work. What will work? Not doing anything at all beyond paying people fairly, letting people have adequate time off, setting realistic expectations and deadlines, and not constantly shuffling your organization around like it's a fantasy football team. Even if you could somehow sprinkle social fertilizer on your team and make them all besties with a sick ropes course in Provo, it is immoral to expect it. Your employees' relationships are their business, not yours.
ghaff 4y ago
I can live without a lot of the forced fun/team building exercises. As you say, a lot of this happens fairly naturally at least in person. (Certainly, less so remotely.) On the other hand, I've heard remote/distributed people very vocally object to being asked to travel to a team meeting once or twice a year on the grounds that they work 9-5 (or whatever) and that's it.

guywhocodes 4y ago

This, working in big tech I've found that the activities are also incredibly infantile and marketed as such. Yes I work with software, no I don't expect everything to be a computer game or "cute".

ElevenLathe 4y ago
It's doubly infantilizing: First, management assumes that their pet programmers are little babies that need play dates with the other office furniture (to mix several metaphors). Second, they assume that the only way to help us is to let us expense a round of laser tag.
spacemadness 4y ago
That’s because it’s incredibly safe to go into Disney mode. I hate it too as it makes me feel like they’re treating me like a fragile 12 year old.

pydry 4y ago

>Working together 40 hours a week for years at a time should provide plenty of opportunity Yeah, but when starting a new project affords almost none. Should it remain like that for years? I hate the "corporate fun" exercises as much as the next guy but without something to build trust most teams flounder. Japananese/South Korean salaryman drinking culture (or any after work drinks culture) works well at this coz alcohol naturally makes people vulnerable. It obviously has its own problems.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
irrational 4y ago
Work build trust. Trust is built as I see your work output and the effort you are putting in. I’ve never developer trust in anyone through an activity outside of work. I have come away with a worse opinion of some people as I see how they behave outside of work.
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  Exactly. Just because it would be convenient for management if $200 worth of Dave & Busters could turn a group of strangers into a well-functioning team does not make it so. Sure, you can try it, but it won't work. What will work? Not doing anything at all beyond paying people fairly, letting people have adequate time off, setting realistic expectations and deadlines, and not constantly shuffling your organization around like it's a fantasy football team. Even if you could somehow sprinkle social fertilizer on your team and make them all besties with a sick ropes course in Provo, it is immoral to expect it. Your employees' relationships are their business, not yours.

ghaff 4y ago

I can live without a lot of the forced fun/team building exercises. As you say, a lot of this happens fairly naturally at least in person. (Certainly, less so remotely.) On the other hand, I've heard remote/distributed people very vocally object to being asked to travel to a team meeting once or twice a year on the grounds that they work 9-5 (or whatever) and that's it.