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I am genuinely surprised people in America are still using checks. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but… A check? If you have checks laying around, you

I am genuinely surprised people in America are still using checks. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but… A check? If you have checks laying around, you should destroy them. If you need something like a check, get a money order.

drukenemo 4y ago
Most countries in Western Europe and South America (that I know of) have stopped using checks at least 10 years ago.
- debesyla 4y ago
  And Baltic countries (like Lithuania) never used checks at all - now it's only instant and free SEPA bank transfers.
- alkonaut 4y ago
  25 I’d say. I stopped using cash 10-15 years ago. I mean entirely, no exceptions.
sneak 4y ago
I can write a check in my home or office, put it in an envelope with a stamp, and put it in the outgoing post, all without going anywhere or paying anyone. I can complete the whole payment task in 5 minutes. Money orders have a fee and require time and gasoline to go somewhere to get them. In 5 minutes I haven't even arrived at the nearest location to purchase a money order.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  a check gives transaction control to the parties directly participating.. a check can be physically held on private property. Why people cry out that this is "ancient" just says to me that people are conditioned to depend on outside companies for every aspect of financial life, minute by minute.
  - jameshart 4y ago
    A check is literally an instruction to a bank to talk to another bank and get some money, a process which, in the US, they usually complete by sending the check to a federal reserve clearinghouse. In what way does that give the parties directly participating in the transaction independent ‘control’?
    - mistrial9 4y ago
      clearing the check is centralized obviously.. Think for a minute about the sequence of steps of a transaction. Payment for ________ upon the completion of _________; a third party escrow; conditional transactions of every flavor.
      - jameshart 4y ago
        I guess by ‘independent’ you mean that with physical checks people are able to make up kind of ‘folk protocols’ for transactions involving steps like ‘party x holds on to a check written by party y’. - without the banks having to know that that’s what they’re doing, or having to involve some third party to handle that like PayPal or someone? That seems like a pretty weak argument for checks. The range of cases where those processes are useful, in terms of mutual trust (or lack thereof), quantities of funds involved, etc, seem pretty narrow. Like, I don’t trust you enough that I want to ask you to cut a check in advance, and I know you don’t trust me enough to not cash it right away so we’re going to have someone else hold it… but I trust you enough not to cancel the check, and that you’ll be holding sufficient funds so that when I do get the check I know it will actually clear… Surely we’d be better off using a proper escrow service for that? I get that pre-electronic-banking this sort of folk-banking was all people could do but it should be easy to do this sort of thing better electronically
        mistrial9 4y ago
        weak => a check can be held while the electricity is out; while someone is having a health emergency; while someone changes their mind, their plans, their decision
- bbbbb5 4y ago
  >I can write a check in my home or office, put it in an envelope with a stamp, and put it in the outgoing post, all without going anywhere or paying anyone. I can complete the whole payment task in 5 minutes. Is that better than logging into your online banking, making an instant transfer? No need to go anywhere or pay anyone.
  - sneak 4y ago
    Every time I do that to a new recipient I have never paid before (especially when my client IP is in another country (where I spend more than half each year), but also even just in the US), Chase bank locks the entire account, including all debit and credit cards, and demands an in-person (in USA) visit with ID to unlock it, because US retail banks have not figured out unphishable web authentication yet. Paying a new person is at a minimum a 3 hour process using online payments for me if they don't accept credit card payments. Also, my checks don't have my full name or billing address on them. Credit card payments require disclosing at least part of these (at a minimum, billing address zip code) to the payee. Wire transfers disclose the full name on the account. I want to send money, not PII.
    - adriancr 4y ago
      find a better bank... Revolut has been great for me so far, seems to be in the usa as well, check them out at least for transfers > Also, my checks don't have my full name or billing address on them. Return address on envelope does... Also, aren't you worried someone will intercept check like in article and rewrite it?, non issue with electronic payments
      - ghaff 4y ago
        In fairness, you don't have to put your return address on the envelope. Historically, places could be fussy about accepting checks without an address although I expect that's not generally an issue today. (Of course, lots of other ways to get someone's address especially if they own a house. It's public information in general in the US.) But, yeah, I've never heard of this account locking thing. I can go to my major brick and mortar bank's web site and add a new payee in 30 seconds. Done.
- adriancr 4y ago
  In the EU I can do instant payments from phone... no need to even write the check, get an envelope, buy stamps, going out to mail it... It would also arrive instantaneously on the other side if done during business hours... No fee... If i need to transfer to mates i just look them up from phone contacts and send money... Or they can send a payment request... or show a qr code that i scan...
  - Tor3 4y ago
    > In the EU I can do instant payments from phone... ^ This. I'm not sure if this is actually EU wide yet.. but there are several payment systems available, which aren't AFAIK yet usable across countries or at least not many countries. They're in any case members of the European Mobile Payment Systems Association. The goal is to make an EU/EEC-wide mobile payment system. Unlike Paypal, Venmo etc. these are directly managed by the banks, i.e. nothing like the horrors you sometimes hear about from those private companies. With the variant I use I just need the/a phone number from the recipient, I enter it in my app, I see a name come up, I pay (with a pin), either directly from a bank account or from e.g. a credit card - I can choose at pay time. So, for that example where you need to pay someone doing garden work for you you don't hand over a check, you simply ask for the phone number, enter the details, show the guy "Is that you?", if "yes", then pay, show the guy the receipt on your phone, deal done. Instant, if it's paid from your account, or "Real Soon Now" if from your credit card (the transaction will fail if you don't have the credit - you don't get a receipt to show. You do get an instant receipt if your credit card works, so there's no doubt on the receiver's end that the money will come). Very convenient. Works in lots of shops too, and, as it's free up to a certain amount, and you only need a phone number you don't have to invest/rent anything, as in getting a card reader. When that's said, until this became popular you could more often than not use a credit card for anything including flea market sellers, parking meters, everything. The only limitation I've run into is with, of all things, doctor's offices where their payment machines for some reason only accept bank (direct debit) cards, not CC. The dentists accept everything though, and everybody else accepts everything too. But the phone payment is so extremely easy, and safe, that it's taking over everything. Splitting a bill at the restaurant? Phone transfer. Someone forgot their credit card at the gasoline pump? Phone the amount to someone who's got a CC and then the person with the CC can fill up the car. I do prefer contactless CC payment in shops though.
zippergz 4y ago
Last time I had a plumber at my house on short notice, they required payment on site and didn’t take credit cards. Are you suggesting I keep large piles of cash sitting around for such occasions?
- throwaway98797 4y ago
  i find keeping a grand enough to cover most emergencies, without being so much that i’m worried for it.
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    It then seems reasonable to store the checks in the same place one would store a grand of cash. (That's where I keep my checkbook; I only just keep a single, blank, folded-up check in my wallet for the unexpected need.)
    - mindslight 4y ago
      Actually with the way bank regulations around check fraud works, timely knowing (/reporting) that your physical checks have gone missing is important, so you do not want to hide them out of the way. Despite being just pieces of paper, there are different regulations depending on if a fraudulent check was created from one of your bona fide checks, or whether it was forged from whole cloth.
- adql 4y ago
  Leasing a terminal costs around $15 here so many handymen just... have it. The worst case you can just get to the closest ATM.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- alkonaut 4y ago
  Don’t they normally send an invoice?
jjav 4y ago
> If you need something like a check, get a money order. That would be silly. So now intead of being able to quickly write a check on the spot for free, you'd expect me to go to the post office (or other place that sells money orders), stand in line, pay extra for it? That doesn't make any sense neither from convenience nor cost perspective.
- Overtonwindow 4y ago
  Yes. How often do you use checks? Do you even know where they are?
  - jjav 4y ago
    My checks are in the top drawer of my home office desk and I use them at least monthly to pay the mortgage. And any kind of occasional payment that can't be set to autopay via credit card (for free, I won't pay extra fees for that).

drukenemo 4y ago

Most countries in Western Europe and South America (that I know of) have stopped using checks at least 10 years ago.

debesyla 4y ago
And Baltic countries (like Lithuania) never used checks at all - now it's only instant and free SEPA bank transfers.
alkonaut 4y ago
25 I’d say. I stopped using cash 10-15 years ago. I mean entirely, no exceptions.

sneak 4y ago

I can write a check in my home or office, put it in an envelope with a stamp, and put it in the outgoing post, all without going anywhere or paying anyone. I can complete the whole payment task in 5 minutes. Money orders have a fee and require time and gasoline to go somewhere to get them. In 5 minutes I haven't even arrived at the nearest location to purchase a money order.

mistrial9 4y ago
a check gives transaction control to the parties directly participating.. a check can be physically held on private property. Why people cry out that this is "ancient" just says to me that people are conditioned to depend on outside companies for every aspect of financial life, minute by minute.
- jameshart 4y ago
  A check is literally an instruction to a bank to talk to another bank and get some money, a process which, in the US, they usually complete by sending the check to a federal reserve clearinghouse. In what way does that give the parties directly participating in the transaction independent ‘control’?
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    clearing the check is centralized obviously.. Think for a minute about the sequence of steps of a transaction. Payment for ________ upon the completion of _________; a third party escrow; conditional transactions of every flavor.
    - jameshart 4y ago
      I guess by ‘independent’ you mean that with physical checks people are able to make up kind of ‘folk protocols’ for transactions involving steps like ‘party x holds on to a check written by party y’. - without the banks having to know that that’s what they’re doing, or having to involve some third party to handle that like PayPal or someone? That seems like a pretty weak argument for checks. The range of cases where those processes are useful, in terms of mutual trust (or lack thereof), quantities of funds involved, etc, seem pretty narrow. Like, I don’t trust you enough that I want to ask you to cut a check in advance, and I know you don’t trust me enough to not cash it right away so we’re going to have someone else hold it… but I trust you enough not to cancel the check, and that you’ll be holding sufficient funds so that when I do get the check I know it will actually clear… Surely we’d be better off using a proper escrow service for that? I get that pre-electronic-banking this sort of folk-banking was all people could do but it should be easy to do this sort of thing better electronically
      - mistrial9 4y ago
        weak => a check can be held while the electricity is out; while someone is having a health emergency; while someone changes their mind, their plans, their decision
bbbbb5 4y ago
>I can write a check in my home or office, put it in an envelope with a stamp, and put it in the outgoing post, all without going anywhere or paying anyone. I can complete the whole payment task in 5 minutes. Is that better than logging into your online banking, making an instant transfer? No need to go anywhere or pay anyone.
- sneak 4y ago
  Every time I do that to a new recipient I have never paid before (especially when my client IP is in another country (where I spend more than half each year), but also even just in the US), Chase bank locks the entire account, including all debit and credit cards, and demands an in-person (in USA) visit with ID to unlock it, because US retail banks have not figured out unphishable web authentication yet. Paying a new person is at a minimum a 3 hour process using online payments for me if they don't accept credit card payments. Also, my checks don't have my full name or billing address on them. Credit card payments require disclosing at least part of these (at a minimum, billing address zip code) to the payee. Wire transfers disclose the full name on the account. I want to send money, not PII.
  - adriancr 4y ago
    find a better bank... Revolut has been great for me so far, seems to be in the usa as well, check them out at least for transfers > Also, my checks don't have my full name or billing address on them. Return address on envelope does... Also, aren't you worried someone will intercept check like in article and rewrite it?, non issue with electronic payments
    - ghaff 4y ago
      In fairness, you don't have to put your return address on the envelope. Historically, places could be fussy about accepting checks without an address although I expect that's not generally an issue today. (Of course, lots of other ways to get someone's address especially if they own a house. It's public information in general in the US.) But, yeah, I've never heard of this account locking thing. I can go to my major brick and mortar bank's web site and add a new payee in 30 seconds. Done.
adriancr 4y ago
In the EU I can do instant payments from phone... no need to even write the check, get an envelope, buy stamps, going out to mail it... It would also arrive instantaneously on the other side if done during business hours... No fee... If i need to transfer to mates i just look them up from phone contacts and send money... Or they can send a payment request... or show a qr code that i scan...
- Tor3 4y ago
  > In the EU I can do instant payments from phone... ^ This. I'm not sure if this is actually EU wide yet.. but there are several payment systems available, which aren't AFAIK yet usable across countries or at least not many countries. They're in any case members of the European Mobile Payment Systems Association. The goal is to make an EU/EEC-wide mobile payment system. Unlike Paypal, Venmo etc. these are directly managed by the banks, i.e. nothing like the horrors you sometimes hear about from those private companies. With the variant I use I just need the/a phone number from the recipient, I enter it in my app, I see a name come up, I pay (with a pin), either directly from a bank account or from e.g. a credit card - I can choose at pay time. So, for that example where you need to pay someone doing garden work for you you don't hand over a check, you simply ask for the phone number, enter the details, show the guy "Is that you?", if "yes", then pay, show the guy the receipt on your phone, deal done. Instant, if it's paid from your account, or "Real Soon Now" if from your credit card (the transaction will fail if you don't have the credit - you don't get a receipt to show. You do get an instant receipt if your credit card works, so there's no doubt on the receiver's end that the money will come). Very convenient. Works in lots of shops too, and, as it's free up to a certain amount, and you only need a phone number you don't have to invest/rent anything, as in getting a card reader. When that's said, until this became popular you could more often than not use a credit card for anything including flea market sellers, parking meters, everything. The only limitation I've run into is with, of all things, doctor's offices where their payment machines for some reason only accept bank (direct debit) cards, not CC. The dentists accept everything though, and everybody else accepts everything too. But the phone payment is so extremely easy, and safe, that it's taking over everything. Splitting a bill at the restaurant? Phone transfer. Someone forgot their credit card at the gasoline pump? Phone the amount to someone who's got a CC and then the person with the CC can fill up the car. I do prefer contactless CC payment in shops though.

zippergz 4y ago

Last time I had a plumber at my house on short notice, they required payment on site and didn’t take credit cards. Are you suggesting I keep large piles of cash sitting around for such occasions?

throwaway98797 4y ago
i find keeping a grand enough to cover most emergencies, without being so much that i’m worried for it.
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  It then seems reasonable to store the checks in the same place one would store a grand of cash. (That's where I keep my checkbook; I only just keep a single, blank, folded-up check in my wallet for the unexpected need.)
  - mindslight 4y ago
    Actually with the way bank regulations around check fraud works, timely knowing (/reporting) that your physical checks have gone missing is important, so you do not want to hide them out of the way. Despite being just pieces of paper, there are different regulations depending on if a fraudulent check was created from one of your bona fide checks, or whether it was forged from whole cloth.
adql 4y ago
Leasing a terminal costs around $15 here so many handymen just... have it. The worst case you can just get to the closest ATM.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
alkonaut 4y ago
Don’t they normally send an invoice?

jjav 4y ago

> If you need something like a check, get a money order. That would be silly. So now intead of being able to quickly write a check on the spot for free, you'd expect me to go to the post office (or other place that sells money orders), stand in line, pay extra for it? That doesn't make any sense neither from convenience nor cost perspective.

Overtonwindow 4y ago
Yes. How often do you use checks? Do you even know where they are?
- jjav 4y ago
  My checks are in the top drawer of my home office desk and I use them at least monthly to pay the mortgage. And any kind of occasional payment that can't be set to autopay via credit card (for free, I won't pay extra fees for that).