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In the wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script you can find references from 1971 and 1982. I fin

In the wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script you can find references from 1971 and 1982. I find it hard to understand how this could be "an enormous discovery" in 2004. Nor do I understand the numerous mentions of European colonialism in the article.

josh_fyi 4y ago
Indeed, just as French language and Latin-based orthographies for languages in this reason are the result of a colonial legacy, so too the use of Arabic as a prestige language (mentioned in this article) and an Arabic-based orthography.
- aga98mtl 4y ago
  As far as we know, Senegal was never an arab colony or under direct control. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Senegal#Kingdoms_and_Empires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Senegal#Kingdoms_an... Calling it an arab colony would be like saying Sweden was a roman colony because they use the roman script.
  - RansomStark 4y ago
    But it was conquered by Muslim invaders, not Arabs, but Muslims, specifically the Almoravids [0]. Sweden is not a particularly good example. A better example might be Latvia (or any of the other areas invaded as part of the northern crusades), which was invaded by a group of Catholics spreading the faith[1], Latvia could not be called a colony of the Papacy, but it certainly moved the area into Romes sphere of influence, with all the religion and language that entails. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_ibn_Umar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_ibn_Umar [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades
- coliveira 4y ago
  Colonization is not the only way to spread a script. Arabic arrived in Africa by several means, not like European colonization.
coldtea 4y ago
It wasn't any enormous discovery. The particular academic in the article might have learned this thing existed from his father scribbles, but it has been a thing for centuries and has been studied in the past. They could have just learn about it by studing the literature. It's more about getting more publicity for it, and getting the library and digitization program mentioned in the article going. That should have been the angle in the article. >Nor do I understand the numerous mentions of European colonialism in the article. They're examples of an appeal to current forms of orientalism and colonialism: just spin the story in an angle Americans and Europeans will be sympathetic to, because of their own preoccupations, in order to keep the grants going. Focused on how these scripts were used for close to a millenium, before European colonialism was established in those parts, and arising under practical needs (they had the language, arabs had the script), wouldn't make such an enticing story to modern audiences. Now peoples there speaking French or varieties of Dutch/German, or having their upper classes follow European norms and fashions and shun their own legacy, that's cultural colonialism in Africa (aside the economic, political, and millitary one).
- lukeschlather 4y ago
  It seems to me like a significant discovery for the researcher. And it seems like he discovered something that is being deliberately hidden. I'm also curious about what "preoccupations" you're referring to. People are preoccupied with alleviating illiteracy in Africa, it's interesting that these illiteracy figures may be inflated, and it makes me wonder what groups are trying to make Africa look more illiterate than it is, and why. (It seems at least in part some of the people classified as illiterate like it that way, since the government can't monitor your communications if it refuses to acknowledge they exist.)
  - coldtea 4y ago
    >It seems to me like a significant discovery for the researcher. A researcher not being aware of something openly used for centuries and already covered in relevant studies, research literature, symposiums (and even popular articles) well before they learn about it, does not quality them made aware of it as being a "discovery". That's not how the term "discovery" works in an academic context, and certainly it's not what discovery as implied in the article means. >People are preoccupied with alleviating illiteracy in Africa, it's interesting that these illiteracy figures may be inflated, and it makes me wonder what groups are trying to make Africa look more illiterate than it is, and why The use of Ajami (which doesn't affect the kind of illiteracy people are concerned about, or even is widespread enough to be used as a substitute for it), and wouldn't much affect that concern (which is about people being able to participate in the official languages and writing systems of their country, and beyond that, for people going to school in general, beyond reading and writing). >It seems at least in part some of the people classified as illiterate like it that way, since the government can't monitor your communications if it refuses to acknowledge they exist. It's a system that has been used for half a millenium. It's not like it keeps any communication unreadable or even more difficult to read from the government (another incorrect information in the article). The government just doesn't bother with it in any official capacity, precisely because it's not official. The same way some patois dialects are not part of many place's publicized literature, are not taught in school, are not used in official documents, and so on. Aside from that, anybody who knows the target language and is familiar with the arabic alphabet, can easily read it - which is exactly why it was used by "illiterate" people (meaning illiterate in the official, colonial or otherwise, languages and writing systems of their country).
deleted 4y ago
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euler5050 4y ago
Did you read the article? European colonialism is directly relevant to the subject of the article and the connection is explicitly explained. "Ajami, from the Arabic word ʿAjamī, meaning “non-Arabic” or “foreign,” was created centuries ago by Islamic evangelists to spread the religion to African communities. Over generations, it was adopted by members of anticolonial nationalist resistance movements throughout the continent, as French and English colonists installed their own languages and customs."
- tgsegsetg 4y ago
  > by Islamic evangelists to spread the religion to African communities It didn't work that way.
tgv 4y ago
There are hardly mentions of colonialism, only where it fits. And that's the point, it seems: nobody bothered to look, apparently convinced in one way or another that the people were illiterate. So, it's an interesting and large set of documents. The remark I found most interesting was that it wasn't taught at school, but that people seem to have taught it among themselves. The article doesn't mention any other form of teaching, but it might have something to do with the earlier Muslim colonization/proselytizing and the subsequent spread of the Quran.
Proven 4y ago
[dead]
coliveira 4y ago
The discovery mentioned is not of the script itself, but the fact that lots of common people were extensively using it all over Africa. Previously, it was believed that this script was used by a small part of African population, as a result of its distant past. The author has provided samples of this in several countries, and for common use (like for his own family), something that was not believed to be true in modern Africa.

josh_fyi 4y ago

Indeed, just as French language and Latin-based orthographies for languages in this reason are the result of a colonial legacy, so too the use of Arabic as a prestige language (mentioned in this article) and an Arabic-based orthography.

aga98mtl 4y ago
As far as we know, Senegal was never an arab colony or under direct control. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Senegal#Kingdoms_and_Empires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Senegal#Kingdoms_an... Calling it an arab colony would be like saying Sweden was a roman colony because they use the roman script.
- RansomStark 4y ago
  But it was conquered by Muslim invaders, not Arabs, but Muslims, specifically the Almoravids [0]. Sweden is not a particularly good example. A better example might be Latvia (or any of the other areas invaded as part of the northern crusades), which was invaded by a group of Catholics spreading the faith[1], Latvia could not be called a colony of the Papacy, but it certainly moved the area into Romes sphere of influence, with all the religion and language that entails. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_ibn_Umar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_ibn_Umar [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades
coliveira 4y ago
Colonization is not the only way to spread a script. Arabic arrived in Africa by several means, not like European colonization.

coldtea 4y ago

It wasn't any enormous discovery. The particular academic in the article might have learned this thing existed from his father scribbles, but it has been a thing for centuries and has been studied in the past. They could have just learn about it by studing the literature. It's more about getting more publicity for it, and getting the library and digitization program mentioned in the article going. That should have been the angle in the article. >Nor do I understand the numerous mentions of European colonialism in the article. They're examples of an appeal to current forms of orientalism and colonialism: just spin the story in an angle Americans and Europeans will be sympathetic to, because of their own preoccupations, in order to keep the grants going. Focused on how these scripts were used for close to a millenium, before European colonialism was established in those parts, and arising under practical needs (they had the language, arabs had the script), wouldn't make such an enticing story to modern audiences. Now peoples there speaking French or varieties of Dutch/German, or having their upper classes follow European norms and fashions and shun their own legacy, that's cultural colonialism in Africa (aside the economic, political, and millitary one).

lukeschlather 4y ago
It seems to me like a significant discovery for the researcher. And it seems like he discovered something that is being deliberately hidden. I'm also curious about what "preoccupations" you're referring to. People are preoccupied with alleviating illiteracy in Africa, it's interesting that these illiteracy figures may be inflated, and it makes me wonder what groups are trying to make Africa look more illiterate than it is, and why. (It seems at least in part some of the people classified as illiterate like it that way, since the government can't monitor your communications if it refuses to acknowledge they exist.)
- coldtea 4y ago
  >It seems to me like a significant discovery for the researcher. A researcher not being aware of something openly used for centuries and already covered in relevant studies, research literature, symposiums (and even popular articles) well before they learn about it, does not quality them made aware of it as being a "discovery". That's not how the term "discovery" works in an academic context, and certainly it's not what discovery as implied in the article means. >People are preoccupied with alleviating illiteracy in Africa, it's interesting that these illiteracy figures may be inflated, and it makes me wonder what groups are trying to make Africa look more illiterate than it is, and why The use of Ajami (which doesn't affect the kind of illiteracy people are concerned about, or even is widespread enough to be used as a substitute for it), and wouldn't much affect that concern (which is about people being able to participate in the official languages and writing systems of their country, and beyond that, for people going to school in general, beyond reading and writing). >It seems at least in part some of the people classified as illiterate like it that way, since the government can't monitor your communications if it refuses to acknowledge they exist. It's a system that has been used for half a millenium. It's not like it keeps any communication unreadable or even more difficult to read from the government (another incorrect information in the article). The government just doesn't bother with it in any official capacity, precisely because it's not official. The same way some patois dialects are not part of many place's publicized literature, are not taught in school, are not used in official documents, and so on. Aside from that, anybody who knows the target language and is familiar with the arabic alphabet, can easily read it - which is exactly why it was used by "illiterate" people (meaning illiterate in the official, colonial or otherwise, languages and writing systems of their country).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

euler5050 4y ago

Did you read the article? European colonialism is directly relevant to the subject of the article and the connection is explicitly explained. "Ajami, from the Arabic word ʿAjamī, meaning “non-Arabic” or “foreign,” was created centuries ago by Islamic evangelists to spread the religion to African communities. Over generations, it was adopted by members of anticolonial nationalist resistance movements throughout the continent, as French and English colonists installed their own languages and customs."

tgsegsetg 4y ago
> by Islamic evangelists to spread the religion to African communities It didn't work that way.

tgv 4y ago

There are hardly mentions of colonialism, only where it fits. And that's the point, it seems: nobody bothered to look, apparently convinced in one way or another that the people were illiterate. So, it's an interesting and large set of documents. The remark I found most interesting was that it wasn't taught at school, but that people seem to have taught it among themselves. The article doesn't mention any other form of teaching, but it might have something to do with the earlier Muslim colonization/proselytizing and the subsequent spread of the Quran.

Proven 4y ago

[dead]

coliveira 4y ago

The discovery mentioned is not of the script itself, but the fact that lots of common people were extensively using it all over Africa. Previously, it was believed that this script was used by a small part of African population, as a result of its distant past. The author has provided samples of this in several countries, and for common use (like for his own family), something that was not believed to be true in modern Africa.