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And how does that compare to the fleet of electric cars his companies make to replace gas cars? Is he net negative?

by pifm_guy 4y ago

feet 4y ago
I don't think that would make a difference considering those cars replace the transportation of others
- pgaspar 4y ago
  And Tesla also sells carbon offsets to other companies.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    To be precise they don't sell carbon offsets, they sell regulatory credits. These schemes force the sum of all cars sold to be lower in emissions than in previous years; the ability to trade credits provides extra incentive to companies which are making an out-sized contribution to the overall efficiency. The problem isn't that Tesla is selling. The problem is that others are buying. At the end of the day it's not Tesla's fault if these government schemes aren't resulting in ideal overall outcomes.
VeninVidiaVicii 4y ago
The electricity has to come from somewhere, and most of the time, that involves fossil fuels anyhow.
- credit_guy 4y ago
  Yes, but most electricity in the US is produced using natural gas. Natural gas produces much less CO2 emissions than all other fossil fuels. Plus, the efficiency of power plants is double the efficiency of an ICE engine in a car. Switching to an EV easily cuts the emissions by a factor of 2, even when the electricity is produced with fossil fuels.
  - pifm_guy 4y ago
    Even if all electricity comes from the least efficient coal plants, EV's still tend to produce less CO2/mile because EV's are designed to have regen braking, low rolling resistance and low aerodynamic drag.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  It comes from fossil fuels today, but it can always come from nuclear or renewable sources in the future.
jerojero 4y ago
It's actually a lot more difficult to quantify the total emissions of electric car than it might seem at first glance. For one, the electricity might easily be generated through carbon so this doesn't offset emissions as much as direct use of fossil fuels. Not only that, but focusing just on emissions is not comprehensive enough when thinking about the environmental impact of these technologies as a whole. As an example, the extraction of lithium in south america is decimating extremely delicate ecosystems (such as ancient archeon that resides in these extreme environments). So I do wonder if trying to offer an similar but not quite alternative to car transportation is actually doing as much good as we think, it might be better for governments to push for more collective solutions to transportation that will drastically reduce environmental impact as a whole. Not that electric cars are not better than petrol or gasoline cars, but still, I think as a whole the car industry (this includes electric) is probably a net negative to environment and electric cars in particular are prolonging the life of technology that we should be thinking of reducing as much as possible.
- jycr753 4y ago
  so you are saying, they are selling a lie and it nos worth spending that much money in EV cars?
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    No, they're saying it's complicated. That means that if you try to make it uncomplicated again that you are going to miss crucial information and nuance.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  >So I do wonder if trying to offer an similar but not quite alternative to car transportation is actually doing as much good as we think, it might be better for governments to push for more collective solutions to transportation that will drastically reduce environmental impact as a whole I like how speculative and yet casually confident we get on here. Cities like NYC and Chicago have respectable public transportation systems. Have we analyzed what cars are used for here? One problem is how do you propose getting people from a dense area to a weekend getaway to the woods, the mountains or a beach? Another problem is, people live in semi rural and suburban areas, too, not everyone lives in an apartment building five minutes from a bus or subway.
Zigurd 4y ago
This is a non-sequitur. Apply the same argument to a serial killer who is a trauma surgeon. Just because you have the same units doesn't mean you have an equation.
cma 4y ago
Batteries are constrained right now so they could have gone as a better use into plug in hybrids instead. For each full electric car you produce you get 1 full electric and 6 gas cars, or you get 7 plug in hybrids, using the same amount of batteries. The batteries in each Tesla Semi could make multiple shorter range delivery trucks/vans that benefit from stop and go regenerative braking much more.

And how does that compare to the fleet of electric cars his companies make to replace gas cars? Is he net negative?

feet 4y ago

I don't think that would make a difference considering those cars replace the transportation of others

pgaspar 4y ago
And Tesla also sells carbon offsets to other companies.
- simondotau 4y ago
  To be precise they don't sell carbon offsets, they sell regulatory credits. These schemes force the sum of all cars sold to be lower in emissions than in previous years; the ability to trade credits provides extra incentive to companies which are making an out-sized contribution to the overall efficiency. The problem isn't that Tesla is selling. The problem is that others are buying. At the end of the day it's not Tesla's fault if these government schemes aren't resulting in ideal overall outcomes.

VeninVidiaVicii 4y ago

The electricity has to come from somewhere, and most of the time, that involves fossil fuels anyhow.

credit_guy 4y ago
Yes, but most electricity in the US is produced using natural gas. Natural gas produces much less CO2 emissions than all other fossil fuels. Plus, the efficiency of power plants is double the efficiency of an ICE engine in a car. Switching to an EV easily cuts the emissions by a factor of 2, even when the electricity is produced with fossil fuels.
- pifm_guy 4y ago
  Even if all electricity comes from the least efficient coal plants, EV's still tend to produce less CO2/mile because EV's are designed to have regen braking, low rolling resistance and low aerodynamic drag.
mancerayder 4y ago
It comes from fossil fuels today, but it can always come from nuclear or renewable sources in the future.

jerojero 4y ago

It's actually a lot more difficult to quantify the total emissions of electric car than it might seem at first glance. For one, the electricity might easily be generated through carbon so this doesn't offset emissions as much as direct use of fossil fuels. Not only that, but focusing just on emissions is not comprehensive enough when thinking about the environmental impact of these technologies as a whole. As an example, the extraction of lithium in south america is decimating extremely delicate ecosystems (such as ancient archeon that resides in these extreme environments). So I do wonder if trying to offer an similar but not quite alternative to car transportation is actually doing as much good as we think, it might be better for governments to push for more collective solutions to transportation that will drastically reduce environmental impact as a whole. Not that electric cars are not better than petrol or gasoline cars, but still, I think as a whole the car industry (this includes electric) is probably a net negative to environment and electric cars in particular are prolonging the life of technology that we should be thinking of reducing as much as possible.

jycr753 4y ago
so you are saying, they are selling a lie and it nos worth spending that much money in EV cars?
- jacquesm 4y ago
  No, they're saying it's complicated. That means that if you try to make it uncomplicated again that you are going to miss crucial information and nuance.
mancerayder 4y ago
>So I do wonder if trying to offer an similar but not quite alternative to car transportation is actually doing as much good as we think, it might be better for governments to push for more collective solutions to transportation that will drastically reduce environmental impact as a whole I like how speculative and yet casually confident we get on here. Cities like NYC and Chicago have respectable public transportation systems. Have we analyzed what cars are used for here? One problem is how do you propose getting people from a dense area to a weekend getaway to the woods, the mountains or a beach? Another problem is, people live in semi rural and suburban areas, too, not everyone lives in an apartment building five minutes from a bus or subway.

Zigurd 4y ago

This is a non-sequitur. Apply the same argument to a serial killer who is a trauma surgeon. Just because you have the same units doesn't mean you have an equation.

cma 4y ago

Batteries are constrained right now so they could have gone as a better use into plug in hybrids instead. For each full electric car you produce you get 1 full electric and 6 gas cars, or you get 7 plug in hybrids, using the same amount of batteries. The batteries in each Tesla Semi could make multiple shorter range delivery trucks/vans that benefit from stop and go regenerative braking much more.