5 ms·

To be fair, I think some examples, and specifically those from 95/NT and then 3.1 times, are too far-fetched. I agree that consistency is important, but it does

To be fair, I think some examples, and specifically those from 95/NT and then 3.1 times, are too far-fetched. I agree that consistency is important, but it doesn't mean that every screen needs to be redesigned altogether. For instance, I don't think that examples of Screen Saver Settings or File Properties are relevant, as long as their styling is in line with the rest of the OS. One thing that surprises me a lot, though, is that a lot of applications seem to need to be upgraded one-by-one, even if the UI is largely the same and only the styling needs to be upgraded. I never developed for Windows UI, but does it mean that there is no single reusable UI Kit, where just the styling could be changed from OS version to another? Do all these examples demonstrate that different applications are compiled with different UI Frameworks that are all in use and supported?

biorach 4y ago
Basically, yes. I believe some are no longer supported, but are still in use internally.
Someone1234 4y ago
I agree, but I do want to point out that some of these "not updated" things are still heavily used and offer a bad user experience. For example the Services (or any mmc based) UI with no filter/search integrated is absurd. Heck they just "redesigned" Task Manager and none of the tabs have filter/search functionality which is annoying to say the least. I suppose you can start typing with the inner tab having focus, and it SOMETIMES finds the correct thing, but it isn't reliable and is hidden functionality that people just need to know is a thing. Props to them adding an address-bar to RegEdit though (in the W10 Creators Update) and multi-tab Powershell terminal. Very welcome and positive improvements. Wish we had more stuff like that.
- Sakos 4y ago
  That's not quite true. The Event Viewer has always had filtering and search and it's mmc-based. They could easily iterate on the Services UI and add that too instead of just building something completely new that has no new functionality and doesn't improve the interface. I'm tired of Microsoft actively making things worse instead of actually improving what they already have.
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  Task Manager not having a modern filter/search for the gigantic list isn’t only an annoyance and a productivity killer but also a security issue. If I suspect a nefarious app is running in the background somewhere I have to manually read the list to find it and kill it. End of the day one of two things is happening, either no one influential at MS uses Windows or their structure is so broken that pointing out something like this it isn’t even possible to action the feature to be built.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    There seems to be something really wrong with task manager. In Win 11 22h2, if you start it as a regular user, you get the new interface. If you run it as administrator, you get the old one. It also somehow manages to often maximize behind the taskbar. Or cut the output on the righ-hand side of the info in the performance / memory pane.
  - xanathar 4y ago
    tasklist | findstr "malicious.exe" or tasklist /FI "IMAGENAME eq malicious.exe"
  - sombragris 4y ago
    you could always use resmon.exe
    - rwalle 4y ago
      This and the other comment are non-answers. The fact that another obscure application (at least obscure to most people) can do this does not mean it is ok for task manager not to have this very basic feature.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > I agree, but I do want to point out that some of these "not updated" things are still heavily used and offer a bad user experience. I still remember the day I found out the envvar configuration screen had been updated, and finally: * could be resized so you could see more than 4 envvars at a time, and had a scrollbar taller than 5mm to scroll through the list * could be resized so you could actually see the entire envvar value without having to slowly move the cursor rightwards or copy it to notepad * added a bespoke list editor for PATH so you wouldn't forget the separator or paste the new path at entirely the wrong location half the time At that moment the sun started shining brighter. God was the old dialog unusable shit.
  - codethief 4y ago
    I haven't used Windows in almost 13 years and I still remember that shitty env var config screen. Wow, this is bringing back memories.
    - masklinn 4y ago
      I'm so sorry for the flashback.
phpisthebest 4y ago
>>Do all these examples demonstrate that different applications are compiled with different UI Frameworks that are all in use and supported? yes, examples include win32, mfc, wpf, winui 2, winui 3 are all UI frameworks that MS has released over the years, all of which are still in active use, some more than others. For example, WPF is probably one of the most widely used, even though MS keeps trying to kill it.
kevingadd 4y ago
If you're using win32, it will automatically update most of its widgets to match new styling - but if your application is old enough it won't happen automatically since it would have broken things. You have to opt in by having styling turned on (this is really easy to do). See https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/620045/Custom-Controls-in-Win-API-Visual-Styles https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/620045/Custom-Controls-... (I can't remember where the documentation for this is on MSDN, but I'm sure it's somewhere).
- withinrafael 4y ago
  It's documented on Microsoft Learn at https://learn.microsoft.com/windows/win32/controls/cookbook-overview https://learn.microsoft.com/windows/win32/controls/cookbook-... Be aware though Microsoft considers its WinUI 3 framework as the primary framework for implementing its Fluent design language and controls. (WinUI 2 will get you there too but has recently been deprecated.) Win32, common controls, WPF, WinForms, etc. are considered legacy technologies and cannot officially make use of many Fluent styles or controls.
323 4y ago
One universal solution that works for all apps - you render the app in an off-screen buffer and pass that to AI to re-render it in the new style. This way you don't need to touch the code. AI could also translate mouse clicks/coordinates accordingly if it moves stuff around. You could even have "UI themes", tell the AI to re-render in Windows 2000/XP/11 style. EDIT: the downvotes I'm getting with no comments are funny. This will happen in the next 7 years because solving this problem once it's much cheaper than fixing all the apps one by one.
- josephg 4y ago
  Sometimes in my career I wonder: Is this finally it? Have we finally hit the point where software will stop getting slower and chonkier every year? I can’t think of sensible sounding ways to justify making software run orders of magnitude slower than it does now. And yet, I don’t know how but every time … it happens. Java came out when I was young, with a huge JRE installation, slow startup times, GC pauses and Java Swing. Then Electron came out, making a “hello world” gui app need 800mb of RAM. Electron makes Java feel light and nimble. Honorable mention for docker convincing windows and macos developers to write software inside slow virtual machines for no reason. Recently, despite the tireless work of photoanalysisd on my Mac, and Microsoft teams on windows, things were starting to get faster again. Thank goodness for you, parent commenter. I can worry no longer. I was starting to wonder if the curse might be lifted. I can see it now. It’s 2026. My fans spin up as a 8gb neural net live-translates the UI of notepad.exe for the modern age. My $4000 graphics card is showing its age. My mouse lags while I try and click on the menu. The UI is rerendered because Microsoft couldn’t be bothered porting the windows 11 UI code to the new windows 13 UI look and feel. Windows 13 looks different yet again for no reason. So they do the translation live on my GPU instead because it’s cheaper (for them). Programmer time is still expensive. In the background ChatGPT quietly makes web requests to live-translate all the menu items into the new social media acceptable language. The start menu is now on the right. What a time to be alive.
  - avx56 4y ago
    I would "happily" use Windows again if every menu bar item was a very low-res AI-generated meme
NGRhodes 4y ago
> For instance, I don't think that examples of Screen Saver Settings or File Properties are relevant, as long as their styling is in line with the rest of the OS. The only styling in common is most of the window colours match the selected theme. The window decoration style, layout, font sizes, iconography, buttons are all artifacts of older MS Windows and do not match the modern Win 11 design language.
shp0ngle 4y ago
This person isn’t necessarily complaining, I see it more like documenting. I still find it surprising that in some forgotten corner of Windows we get 3.11 file dialogue. But also who cares really.
chinabot 4y ago
To be fair to windows I have several programs some over 20 years old which keep their exact behaviour and (with some minor updates) their looks, I appreciate not screwing those over for the sake of the latest GUIFAD

biorach 4y ago

Basically, yes. I believe some are no longer supported, but are still in use internally.

Someone1234 4y ago

I agree, but I do want to point out that some of these "not updated" things are still heavily used and offer a bad user experience. For example the Services (or any mmc based) UI with no filter/search integrated is absurd. Heck they just "redesigned" Task Manager and none of the tabs have filter/search functionality which is annoying to say the least. I suppose you can start typing with the inner tab having focus, and it SOMETIMES finds the correct thing, but it isn't reliable and is hidden functionality that people just need to know is a thing. Props to them adding an address-bar to RegEdit though (in the W10 Creators Update) and multi-tab Powershell terminal. Very welcome and positive improvements. Wish we had more stuff like that.

Sakos 4y ago
That's not quite true. The Event Viewer has always had filtering and search and it's mmc-based. They could easily iterate on the Services UI and add that too instead of just building something completely new that has no new functionality and doesn't improve the interface. I'm tired of Microsoft actively making things worse instead of actually improving what they already have.
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
Task Manager not having a modern filter/search for the gigantic list isn’t only an annoyance and a productivity killer but also a security issue. If I suspect a nefarious app is running in the background somewhere I have to manually read the list to find it and kill it. End of the day one of two things is happening, either no one influential at MS uses Windows or their structure is so broken that pointing out something like this it isn’t even possible to action the feature to be built.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  There seems to be something really wrong with task manager. In Win 11 22h2, if you start it as a regular user, you get the new interface. If you run it as administrator, you get the old one. It also somehow manages to often maximize behind the taskbar. Or cut the output on the righ-hand side of the info in the performance / memory pane.
- xanathar 4y ago
  tasklist | findstr "malicious.exe" or tasklist /FI "IMAGENAME eq malicious.exe"
- sombragris 4y ago
  you could always use resmon.exe
  - rwalle 4y ago
    This and the other comment are non-answers. The fact that another obscure application (at least obscure to most people) can do this does not mean it is ok for task manager not to have this very basic feature.
masklinn 4y ago
> I agree, but I do want to point out that some of these "not updated" things are still heavily used and offer a bad user experience. I still remember the day I found out the envvar configuration screen had been updated, and finally: * could be resized so you could see more than 4 envvars at a time, and had a scrollbar taller than 5mm to scroll through the list * could be resized so you could actually see the entire envvar value without having to slowly move the cursor rightwards or copy it to notepad * added a bespoke list editor for PATH so you wouldn't forget the separator or paste the new path at entirely the wrong location half the time At that moment the sun started shining brighter. God was the old dialog unusable shit.
- codethief 4y ago
  I haven't used Windows in almost 13 years and I still remember that shitty env var config screen. Wow, this is bringing back memories.
  - masklinn 4y ago
    I'm so sorry for the flashback.

phpisthebest 4y ago

>>Do all these examples demonstrate that different applications are compiled with different UI Frameworks that are all in use and supported? yes, examples include win32, mfc, wpf, winui 2, winui 3 are all UI frameworks that MS has released over the years, all of which are still in active use, some more than others. For example, WPF is probably one of the most widely used, even though MS keeps trying to kill it.

kevingadd 4y ago

If you're using win32, it will automatically update most of its widgets to match new styling - but if your application is old enough it won't happen automatically since it would have broken things. You have to opt in by having styling turned on (this is really easy to do). See https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/620045/Custom-Controls-in-Win-API-Visual-Styles https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/620045/Custom-Controls-... (I can't remember where the documentation for this is on MSDN, but I'm sure it's somewhere).

withinrafael 4y ago
It's documented on Microsoft Learn at https://learn.microsoft.com/windows/win32/controls/cookbook-overview https://learn.microsoft.com/windows/win32/controls/cookbook-... Be aware though Microsoft considers its WinUI 3 framework as the primary framework for implementing its Fluent design language and controls. (WinUI 2 will get you there too but has recently been deprecated.) Win32, common controls, WPF, WinForms, etc. are considered legacy technologies and cannot officially make use of many Fluent styles or controls.

323 4y ago

One universal solution that works for all apps - you render the app in an off-screen buffer and pass that to AI to re-render it in the new style. This way you don't need to touch the code. AI could also translate mouse clicks/coordinates accordingly if it moves stuff around. You could even have "UI themes", tell the AI to re-render in Windows 2000/XP/11 style. EDIT: the downvotes I'm getting with no comments are funny. This will happen in the next 7 years because solving this problem once it's much cheaper than fixing all the apps one by one.

josephg 4y ago
Sometimes in my career I wonder: Is this finally it? Have we finally hit the point where software will stop getting slower and chonkier every year? I can’t think of sensible sounding ways to justify making software run orders of magnitude slower than it does now. And yet, I don’t know how but every time … it happens. Java came out when I was young, with a huge JRE installation, slow startup times, GC pauses and Java Swing. Then Electron came out, making a “hello world” gui app need 800mb of RAM. Electron makes Java feel light and nimble. Honorable mention for docker convincing windows and macos developers to write software inside slow virtual machines for no reason. Recently, despite the tireless work of photoanalysisd on my Mac, and Microsoft teams on windows, things were starting to get faster again. Thank goodness for you, parent commenter. I can worry no longer. I was starting to wonder if the curse might be lifted. I can see it now. It’s 2026. My fans spin up as a 8gb neural net live-translates the UI of notepad.exe for the modern age. My $4000 graphics card is showing its age. My mouse lags while I try and click on the menu. The UI is rerendered because Microsoft couldn’t be bothered porting the windows 11 UI code to the new windows 13 UI look and feel. Windows 13 looks different yet again for no reason. So they do the translation live on my GPU instead because it’s cheaper (for them). Programmer time is still expensive. In the background ChatGPT quietly makes web requests to live-translate all the menu items into the new social media acceptable language. The start menu is now on the right. What a time to be alive.
- avx56 4y ago
  I would "happily" use Windows again if every menu bar item was a very low-res AI-generated meme

NGRhodes 4y ago

> For instance, I don't think that examples of Screen Saver Settings or File Properties are relevant, as long as their styling is in line with the rest of the OS. The only styling in common is most of the window colours match the selected theme. The window decoration style, layout, font sizes, iconography, buttons are all artifacts of older MS Windows and do not match the modern Win 11 design language.

shp0ngle 4y ago

This person isn’t necessarily complaining, I see it more like documenting. I still find it surprising that in some forgotten corner of Windows we get 3.11 file dialogue. But also who cares really.

chinabot 4y ago

To be fair to windows I have several programs some over 20 years old which keep their exact behaviour and (with some minor updates) their looks, I appreciate not screwing those over for the sake of the latest GUIFAD