6 ms·

Idea: extend the act to provide full protection for US Americans who expose espionage, sabotage (and possibly worse things) carried out in EU countries.

colonwqbang 4y ago
I don't follow. Why would an EU country punish a US citizen for reporting espionage/sabotage directed against the EU country? Or do you mean something else?
- dividedbyzero 4y ago
  They would need guaranteed non-extradition and possibly a lot of protection so they don't get abducted by the US, but that sort of legislation would never sail under the current German government.
  - zirgs 4y ago
    It's only possible to extradite people if they did something that's a crime in both countries.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - dividedbyzero 4y ago
      Treason is a crime in Germany, too, and whether the result is politically opportune for Germany couldn't officially play a role in front of a Oberlandesgericht court when ruling on an extradition request by the US. Disclosure of spy activities certainly would be a crime if committed in Germany against Germany, so extradition for such a whistleblower would have to be stopped at the political level, which is possible, but that's not something I would want to depend on. The US could exert a lot of very painful pressure on a German government, and as the Snowden affair shows, broad public support is far from given. Might be easier to weather the scandal from giving in than the consequences of sticking to principles.
  - vquant 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - klerkc 4y ago
    [flagged]
- lizardactivist 4y ago
  Maybe my wording is bad; the EU should offer protection to US citizens who expose crimes committed by the US government in the EU. And preferably committed elsewhere in the world, since it's in the world's best interest to know.
  - ls15 4y ago
    So Snowden could seek asylum in the EU, since he exposed espionage that was targeting the EU (and others)? I have to say that I've lost yet another bit of respect for the German government (and those that followed) when they did not offer asylum to Snowden.
    - zirgs 4y ago
      What did he expose exactly? As far as I know - according to the US government - foreigners have no rights whatsoever so they could spy on everyone else completely legally. For example - they could install spyware/keylogger on my computer completely legally, because the 4th amendment doesn't apply to non-Americans.
      - ls15 4y ago
        That the U.S. selfishly sees non-Americans as unprotected game is nothing that the EU has to respect.
        zirgs 4y ago
        That's how international espionage works. Everyone is spying on everyone else. Do you think that there aren't any European spies in the USA?
        ls15 4y ago
        Maybe... they haven't told me. I am also not sure if the EU is running large scale wiretapping operations in the U.S. and I think that the U.S. would react in a drastic way if they learned about it - as opposed to the EU. What I do know: U.S. citizens are protected by GDPR when they are in the EU.

colonwqbang 4y ago

I don't follow. Why would an EU country punish a US citizen for reporting espionage/sabotage directed against the EU country? Or do you mean something else?

dividedbyzero 4y ago
They would need guaranteed non-extradition and possibly a lot of protection so they don't get abducted by the US, but that sort of legislation would never sail under the current German government.
- zirgs 4y ago
  It's only possible to extradite people if they did something that's a crime in both countries.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dividedbyzero 4y ago
    Treason is a crime in Germany, too, and whether the result is politically opportune for Germany couldn't officially play a role in front of a Oberlandesgericht court when ruling on an extradition request by the US. Disclosure of spy activities certainly would be a crime if committed in Germany against Germany, so extradition for such a whistleblower would have to be stopped at the political level, which is possible, but that's not something I would want to depend on. The US could exert a lot of very painful pressure on a German government, and as the Snowden affair shows, broad public support is far from given. Might be easier to weather the scandal from giving in than the consequences of sticking to principles.
- vquant 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- klerkc 4y ago
  [flagged]
lizardactivist 4y ago
Maybe my wording is bad; the EU should offer protection to US citizens who expose crimes committed by the US government in the EU. And preferably committed elsewhere in the world, since it's in the world's best interest to know.
- ls15 4y ago
  So Snowden could seek asylum in the EU, since he exposed espionage that was targeting the EU (and others)? I have to say that I've lost yet another bit of respect for the German government (and those that followed) when they did not offer asylum to Snowden.
  - zirgs 4y ago
    What did he expose exactly? As far as I know - according to the US government - foreigners have no rights whatsoever so they could spy on everyone else completely legally. For example - they could install spyware/keylogger on my computer completely legally, because the 4th amendment doesn't apply to non-Americans.
    - ls15 4y ago
      That the U.S. selfishly sees non-Americans as unprotected game is nothing that the EU has to respect.
      - zirgs 4y ago
        That's how international espionage works. Everyone is spying on everyone else. Do you think that there aren't any European spies in the USA?
        ls15 4y ago
        Maybe... they haven't told me. I am also not sure if the EU is running large scale wiretapping operations in the U.S. and I think that the U.S. would react in a drastic way if they learned about it - as opposed to the EU. What I do know: U.S. citizens are protected by GDPR when they are in the EU.