7 ms·

Seeing this makes me wonder, because I've dabbled with the thought of living a year in NYC ever since I visited this summer, but I have been put off by all the

by hucker 15y ago

Seeing this makes me wonder, because I've dabbled with the thought of living a year in NYC ever since I visited this summer, but I have been put off by all the warnings here on HN and elsewhere stating that the cost of living there is insane. My current city of residence, Trondheim, Norway is ranking top for consumer price and second for consumer price + rent in this ranking. And still, living as a single male on state scholarship and loans (which adds up to about $15k a year), I live in a pretty ok standard apartment with a room mate and don't save on food etc. at all. I have zero credit-card debt etc. (I could easily do the same in Stavanger, Norway, which ranks higher for cost of rent.) What am I missing?

rabble 15y ago
New York is perhaps a very big city, where you can be in 'new york city' and still be 2 hours subway ride from lower manhattan. I'd guess the other thing is that in new york you're exposed to people who are very wealthy. It distorts the perceived cost of living vs actual numbers.
ryusage 15y ago
Looking at the methodology [1], I have some doubts about the validity of all these numbers. Apparently they're at least partially user-submitted, which implies to me that there's likely to be some bias, depending on who actually took the time to submit information. For example, the site claims that residents of Indianapolis, IN have the most (average) purchasing power of anyone in the world, by an incredible margin. Indianapolis is nice enough, but I'd be shocked if that were true. Still a cool/interesting site, but I would take it with a grain of salt. [1] http://www.numbeo.com/common/motivation_and_methodology.jsp http://www.numbeo.com/common/motivation_and_methodology.jsp
- hucker 15y ago
  Yeah, you're right, the methodology doesn't really inspire confidence in the results. As an anecdote though, when I was vacationing there this summer all groceries, restaurants and similar felt incredibly cheap, and although rent on Manhattan was steep, I found a comparable apartment to my own in Williamsburg that had a slightly higher cost than what I am paying now. Maybe what I'm missing is health insurance? How much does it cost a normally fit 21 year old male for full coverage insurance?
  - rabble 15y ago
    Most folks who are fit and 21 just go without health insurance. If you've got a job and aren't contracting, then you usually get insurance through work.
    - hucker 15y ago
      So.. If I got ill, what would happen? In reality I would have insurance by the norwegian government, but assuming I was american. What does the regular student that doesn't get help from his parents do?
      - rm999 15y ago
        High deductible insurance is about 600-1000 dollars a year, and the deductible is 2500-10000 dollars (meaning the first 2500-10000 dollars of your expenses are out of pocket, and then after that everything is covered).
      - ryusage 15y ago
        From what I recall, students can be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26 as long as they're still in school. That's what most college students do. If they're not in school, and they don't have their own job that provides health insurance, well...honestly, if they don't have a job that provides it, then they probably don't have a job that pays enough that they can afford to get it independently either. Most of my friends in that situation just gamble and try not to go to a doctor unless absolutely necessary. If they do have to...well, then they're going to be in some serious debt. It's not a very good system, but it works for the people who have influence.
- varelse 15y ago
  Indeed: rents and real estate prices have zero impact on the CPI. That explains why places like Hong Kong and Shanghai seem so reasonable (which they're not)...
- nemesisj 15y ago
  I would definitely second your suspicion. There is no way Edinburgh (where I live) can even touch the prices in London, and yet they're listed very closely on these results.
Domenic_S 15y ago
You can totally share a 1-br apartment for $500/each + utilities. But, NYC apartments (in the low price range) are small, old, and dirty. I did a few months of consulting out in NYC, and the company kept an apartment for just such an occasion. According to Zillow it was a $1500/month (this was some years ago) and about 400 square feet. It was a studio, so the bed was in the living room. What you're hearing is basically a quality of life argument. If that's the kind of situation you want to get into, you should go for it. If you have a family or, you know, want some of your own space, the price rises dramatically.
- rm999 15y ago
  Families live in the outer boroughs. A 3 bedroom apartment in Astoria, Queens will run you about 2000 dollars a month and you are still within a 30 minute commute to most of Manhattan.
lambtron 15y ago
you can live a reasonably cheap life in new york--live in brooklyn/queens/nj, make food at home or eat in one of the three chinatowns, etc. the expenses add up when you live in manhattan (probably $1k/month minimum depending on neighborhood), go out to eat and drink, and, essentially, exist. every time you walk outside you can deduct like $20 from your bank account.
- carlhu 15y ago
  I'm new to NYC and live and work in Midtown Manhattan. Can you elaborate on "three Chinatowns"? I know the one on Canal Street, also the one in Flushing. Where's the third?
  - eugenejen 15y ago
    Brooklyn.
shorttime 15y ago
I lived in NYC for a bit so I'll tell you what I liked and what I didn't. One of the things I liked the most was the subway and public transportation system. I didn't have a car at the time and the system was relatively cheap. The system allowed me to get back and forth to my job everyday while also enabling me to head down to Manhattan or other boroughs (I was in Queens) for fun. While it did take time, I had time to spare, but not much money so it worked. The people. NYC has a very diverse set of people, like in many other large cities. In NYC, you can meet anyone, with a broad range of cultures, but you are in control of your own destiny. In my experience, nobody (most) talked to anyone unless they knew someone ahead of time. It was a funny feeling at first, people would be sitting directly across from each other (6 feet/2 meters) - totally ignoring each others' existence. But! If you were interested in getting to know someone you could, most people were receptive when talked to. Sure, there are a few assholes, but there's always assholes in the group. Included in this are roommates, if you manage to get a good set of roommates while there, that's awesome. If you don't, you can always move. I was lucky in this respect. NYC has pretty much everything you could want to do, plays, movies, museums, beaches, ice skating, gyms, martial arts, the list goes on except mountain stuff, and even then it's within traveling distance. I enjoy snowboarding so that's one of my main reasons for not wanting to live there. I don't have the time to travel that much anymore, unfortunately. NYC has a huge mount of opportunity in most industries if you're looking for a job. You just have to reach out and capture it, nobody will hand it to you (usually). The things I didn't like... The perception of certain areas. The Bronx, Harlem, some parts of Brooklyn and Queens have bad reputations. Some of it is true but mostly not. There are lot of things in these areas you wouldn't see elsewhere in NYC. I feel you wouldn't get an accurate portrayal of NYC if you didn't go to these areas. The key is to not go out asking for trouble by flashing money around or causing people grief (making people look stupid). Walk confidently and with purpose and you won't usually have an issue. I also wouldn't go wandering around these areas in the dark after drinking either. Initially, I hated the in-your-face sales approaches that vendors typically use. I got used to it, again, act confidently and don't let them take your money unless you really want what they're selling. I'm not sure how grocery stores in Norway work but NYC is nothing like I ever knew. It was tough getting to them and even then, it was often public market or corner store food. It is somewhat expensive. Wholesale stores typically have better deals, if you can find one (BJs, Costco, Sam's Club, etc). After awhile I started missing having a front yard to play with my dogs in. I didn't have much of a yard at the apartments I lived at. It was a very valuable experience. It helped me grow as a person and helped me learn many different things. If I had to do it over again, I would. That's it for now; if you have any questions feel free to ask me. Good luck in your travels.

by hucker 15y ago

rabble 15y ago

New York is perhaps a very big city, where you can be in 'new york city' and still be 2 hours subway ride from lower manhattan. I'd guess the other thing is that in new york you're exposed to people who are very wealthy. It distorts the perceived cost of living vs actual numbers.

ryusage 15y ago

Looking at the methodology [1], I have some doubts about the validity of all these numbers. Apparently they're at least partially user-submitted, which implies to me that there's likely to be some bias, depending on who actually took the time to submit information. For example, the site claims that residents of Indianapolis, IN have the most (average) purchasing power of anyone in the world, by an incredible margin. Indianapolis is nice enough, but I'd be shocked if that were true. Still a cool/interesting site, but I would take it with a grain of salt. [1] http://www.numbeo.com/common/motivation_and_methodology.jsp http://www.numbeo.com/common/motivation_and_methodology.jsp

hucker 15y ago
Yeah, you're right, the methodology doesn't really inspire confidence in the results. As an anecdote though, when I was vacationing there this summer all groceries, restaurants and similar felt incredibly cheap, and although rent on Manhattan was steep, I found a comparable apartment to my own in Williamsburg that had a slightly higher cost than what I am paying now. Maybe what I'm missing is health insurance? How much does it cost a normally fit 21 year old male for full coverage insurance?
- rabble 15y ago
  Most folks who are fit and 21 just go without health insurance. If you've got a job and aren't contracting, then you usually get insurance through work.
  - hucker 15y ago
    So.. If I got ill, what would happen? In reality I would have insurance by the norwegian government, but assuming I was american. What does the regular student that doesn't get help from his parents do?
    - rm999 15y ago
      High deductible insurance is about 600-1000 dollars a year, and the deductible is 2500-10000 dollars (meaning the first 2500-10000 dollars of your expenses are out of pocket, and then after that everything is covered).
    - ryusage 15y ago
      From what I recall, students can be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26 as long as they're still in school. That's what most college students do. If they're not in school, and they don't have their own job that provides health insurance, well...honestly, if they don't have a job that provides it, then they probably don't have a job that pays enough that they can afford to get it independently either. Most of my friends in that situation just gamble and try not to go to a doctor unless absolutely necessary. If they do have to...well, then they're going to be in some serious debt. It's not a very good system, but it works for the people who have influence.
varelse 15y ago
Indeed: rents and real estate prices have zero impact on the CPI. That explains why places like Hong Kong and Shanghai seem so reasonable (which they're not)...
nemesisj 15y ago
I would definitely second your suspicion. There is no way Edinburgh (where I live) can even touch the prices in London, and yet they're listed very closely on these results.

Domenic_S 15y ago

You can totally share a 1-br apartment for $500/each + utilities. But, NYC apartments (in the low price range) are small, old, and dirty. I did a few months of consulting out in NYC, and the company kept an apartment for just such an occasion. According to Zillow it was a $1500/month (this was some years ago) and about 400 square feet. It was a studio, so the bed was in the living room. What you're hearing is basically a quality of life argument. If that's the kind of situation you want to get into, you should go for it. If you have a family or, you know, want some of your own space, the price rises dramatically.

rm999 15y ago
Families live in the outer boroughs. A 3 bedroom apartment in Astoria, Queens will run you about 2000 dollars a month and you are still within a 30 minute commute to most of Manhattan.

lambtron 15y ago

you can live a reasonably cheap life in new york--live in brooklyn/queens/nj, make food at home or eat in one of the three chinatowns, etc. the expenses add up when you live in manhattan (probably $1k/month minimum depending on neighborhood), go out to eat and drink, and, essentially, exist. every time you walk outside you can deduct like $20 from your bank account.

carlhu 15y ago
I'm new to NYC and live and work in Midtown Manhattan. Can you elaborate on "three Chinatowns"? I know the one on Canal Street, also the one in Flushing. Where's the third?
- eugenejen 15y ago
  Brooklyn.

shorttime 15y ago

I lived in NYC for a bit so I'll tell you what I liked and what I didn't. One of the things I liked the most was the subway and public transportation system. I didn't have a car at the time and the system was relatively cheap. The system allowed me to get back and forth to my job everyday while also enabling me to head down to Manhattan or other boroughs (I was in Queens) for fun. While it did take time, I had time to spare, but not much money so it worked. The people. NYC has a very diverse set of people, like in many other large cities. In NYC, you can meet anyone, with a broad range of cultures, but you are in control of your own destiny. In my experience, nobody (most) talked to anyone unless they knew someone ahead of time. It was a funny feeling at first, people would be sitting directly across from each other (6 feet/2 meters) - totally ignoring each others' existence. But! If you were interested in getting to know someone you could, most people were receptive when talked to. Sure, there are a few assholes, but there's always assholes in the group. Included in this are roommates, if you manage to get a good set of roommates while there, that's awesome. If you don't, you can always move. I was lucky in this respect. NYC has pretty much everything you could want to do, plays, movies, museums, beaches, ice skating, gyms, martial arts, the list goes on except mountain stuff, and even then it's within traveling distance. I enjoy snowboarding so that's one of my main reasons for not wanting to live there. I don't have the time to travel that much anymore, unfortunately. NYC has a huge mount of opportunity in most industries if you're looking for a job. You just have to reach out and capture it, nobody will hand it to you (usually). The things I didn't like... The perception of certain areas. The Bronx, Harlem, some parts of Brooklyn and Queens have bad reputations. Some of it is true but mostly not. There are lot of things in these areas you wouldn't see elsewhere in NYC. I feel you wouldn't get an accurate portrayal of NYC if you didn't go to these areas. The key is to not go out asking for trouble by flashing money around or causing people grief (making people look stupid). Walk confidently and with purpose and you won't usually have an issue. I also wouldn't go wandering around these areas in the dark after drinking either. Initially, I hated the in-your-face sales approaches that vendors typically use. I got used to it, again, act confidently and don't let them take your money unless you really want what they're selling. I'm not sure how grocery stores in Norway work but NYC is nothing like I ever knew. It was tough getting to them and even then, it was often public market or corner store food. It is somewhat expensive. Wholesale stores typically have better deals, if you can find one (BJs, Costco, Sam's Club, etc). After awhile I started missing having a front yard to play with my dogs in. I didn't have much of a yard at the apartments I lived at. It was a very valuable experience. It helped me grow as a person and helped me learn many different things. If I had to do it over again, I would. That's it for now; if you have any questions feel free to ask me. Good luck in your travels.