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> I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice All wheel drive helps zero with winter condi
by Tor3 4y ago
> I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice
All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action. Quite the opposite really - many people have experienced how with 4x4 you don't get a warning before you just lose your grip and off the road you go. For the record I'm driving a 4x4, but using summer tires in the winter, with or without engaging 4x4, the car will simply be like Bambi on the ice. Going downhill would mean that I wouldn't stop before hitting something or ending up in the sea. 4x4 doesn't matter for that.
The first thing I do when getting a new car (I always by second hand cars - not that I buy them often, but I'm old enough to have gone through a few) is to buy the best possible summer and winter tires I can get, particularly the latter. That goes before any other investment in the car. I had enough of bad tires when I was very young and without any money.
EditAdd: Many people comment about ice and studded tires. Yes, studded tires are better, not just on ice, but on many kinds of packed snow conditions as well. For some conditions they are the only good option (interestingly enough, this does not always mean that they're better than studless tires on all kinds of ice - it depends on the ice). However, if there's a lot of bare asphalt around, as is often the case when there's a lot of traffic, then studs aren't particularly popular (road wear etc), and in some countries in Europe with lots of bare roads in the winter they're illegal (e.g. Germany IIRC).
As for winter tires without studs, on ice, be aware that there are great differences between brands and types. My father's car had stud-less winter tires while my car had studded tires, and I drove both cars on the same roads and his car behaved well, even on ice or "glassy" snow. But then the tires got old and he replaced with brand new tires, but a different type - much newer, so should be better, right? Not so. Very different to drive. Dangerous I would say, and in fact he got into an accident because of that. I checked that place with my own car afterwards, and no doubt his old tires would have held up just fine.
- supermatt 4y agoAWD != 4x4. AWD + traction control absolutely helps driving on snow and ice with appropriate tyres. If you are driving with summer tyres on ice, then of course you are going to be skittering all over the place. When going downhill on ice, again your tyres are going to make ALL the difference. You shouldnt be trying to stop going downhill on ice anyway. You should be descending at a constant and controlled speed.
- alkonaut 4y agoI think "AWD" today is used to mean "anything that isn't 2WD". So whether it's a full time 4x4 or something that is mostly-fwd-but-rwd-when-slipping or something else isn't part of the nomenclature. It simply means "something more than 2WD at least some of the time". There has been an endless debate as to whether 4WD or AWD are the same or different, whether only "symmetric" or "full time" counts as one or the other. But these days with hybrid drives, traction control shifting drive front/back etc., it's just too complex to keep apart any more.
- supermatt 4y agoNot really - AWD is effectively non-braking traction control by varying the power distribution to each axle (and on some modern electric drivetrains, each wheel). 4wd provides constant power to both axles.
- alkonaut 4y agoI think of it more as an outdated distinction. First of all with motors on each wheel and no communication between front/rear in many cases, the distinction becomes blurry. Further many manufacturers have names like “AWD” (volvo and others) or “4matic” (MB) or “4motion” (VW) to label their take on more-than-2wd, whether or not their variant is awd or 4WD (or both) in the traditional sense. Some "AWD" models will be electric with 1 motor per axle, or 3 motors (1 front 2 rear) etc. Some others are ICE with traditional drive shaft to the rear wheel axle, which in some cases will drive 50/50 and in some cases variable. Others still are hybrids wth no prop shaft but instead a rear electric motor etc.
- supermatt 4y agoIts not outdated. There may be multiple variations on AWD (as i mentioned, some can vary power to individual wheels, rather than just the axles), but 4WD (or 4x4) is categorically not AWD.
- 4y ago
- sethammons 4y ago> All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action What are you on about? Living in Montana, AWD is dramatically better than 4WD. And winter tires are great. We never used them on one of our AWDs because the AWD is so dang good. Snow tires were absolutely required on our 4WD and 2WD cars. AWD or snow tires, I am mindful of stopping distance. I will always choose AWD for the snow. Then add snow tires if needed.
- sandworm101 4y agoWinter driving cover a broad range of conditions, from "I see snowflakes" to "are we still on a road?" Alleged "snow tires" that are good enough in the former can be next to useless in the later. I helped an AWD SUV/crossover thing ten feet off the road a couple weeks ago. It was in very deep fluffy/dry snow, half on its side, sitting its weight on the snow rather than the tires. Only one wheel actually turned (front left). The AWD/TC system was literally out of its depth. 4WD, potentially with locking diffs, would not have had that problem. Once we pulled it enough to get some weight on the wheels, the AWD system kicked in and helped drive it back onto the road. The guy had what he thought were snow tires (snowflake mountain symbol) but looking at the treads myself I didn't see the small grooves that imho are typical of proper snow tires. They looked like all seasons perhaps with some extra silicon to qualify for the badge.
- krupan 4y agoIf the weight of the vehicle is not on the wheels then locking diffs or snow tires won't help. If you are high centered you are high centered and you have to solve that problem first.
- sandworm101 4y agoTypically, when you go off the road with some speed you will be high on the front but less so on the back. In this case we couldn't really tell as the rear wheels were not turning (AWD likely defaults to FWD for most driving conditions). In these cases I don't like digging around too much for fear that the car will settle/shift onto someone. We grabbed at the front bumper tow point, rotating the car 45* counterclockwise. At some point during this the rear axel decided to start helping and it half drove itself back onto the road.
- c0nsumer 4y agoFWIW, in Michigan studded tires are illegal for on-road use in the Lower Peninsula. But they are legal in the Upper Peninsula. That said, I strongly disagree with you about AWD. It makes a tremendous difference for control in general in all winter conditions. Adding snow tires to AWD and things are just excellent and way more predictable.
- Gwypaas 4y agoAWD really does nothing, it helps with acceleration but that is the easy part. The hard part is slowing down and all cars brake using all 4 wheels. You don't brake better with an AWD car. Well, except if you have learned to drive using 4 wheel slides like a rally driver. Then I sincerely hope you lose your license before your endangerment of others lead to an accident.
- ynniv 4y agoI used to drive a RWD BMW in the snow, and it seems lost on people that all cars have four wheel braking. All you need are decent snow tires.
- c0nsumer 4y ago> You don't brake better with an AWD car. You engine brake better with an AWD car.
- Gwypaas 4y agoEven better with ABS brakes. You should never be that close to the limit, either way. Then you are already driving dangerously.