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> edit: I'm aware of the statistics about gasoline vehicle fires, guys. It doesn't matter. You'll be lectured none the less. I had someone ask me about elect

> edit: I'm aware of the statistics about gasoline vehicle fires, guys. It doesn't matter. You'll be lectured none the less. I had someone ask me about electric vehicle fires just before the holiday. She is worried because her son has a preorder deposit on a Tesla Cybertruck. I told her they were safe; fires are unlikely, and ICE cars burn too. That won't stop the worry; you can't tell people anything. Bottom line is people believe they're dangerous. I knew that would happen and said so: Telsa et al. needed to do the necessary education before the inevitable headlines hit. They didn't, so here we are. Got modded into the dirt for predicting this. Go ahead, smash that down button. You can't tell people anything.

VectorLock 4y ago
A vehicle fire with an EV is much more dangerous than an ICE. They burn hotter, re-ignite, and take a massive amount of water to put out (like, a pools worth of water)
- topspin 4y ago
  > A vehicle fire with an EV is much more dangerous than an ICE. No, sorry. A blanket statement likely that isn't meaningful. The failure modes you're comparing are very different and both have aspects that are either more or less "dangerous" than the other. Liquid fuel can spread and ignite very rapidly, whereas damaged batteries tend to smolder for a time before erupting into a large fire. Lithium Ion cells produce large quantities of toxic gases (hydrogen fluoride, in particular, which attacks mucous membranes.) Liquid fuel can be ignited by static electricity from clothing and whatnot. Battery cells can conceal damage from both manufacturing and later events that lead to ignition at unexpected moments. I could go on and on. And for everything I claimed someone else can find an analogous risk with the other. There is no definitive analysis here. Anyone that claims otherwise is talking out of their ass. We won't have answers until there is a fleet full of 20+ year old, neglected electric cars running around getting into wrecks. Even then we'll have to parse the truth from whatever agenda driven narratives prevail at that time.
  - VectorLock 4y ago
    The linked article does a nice job of citing their sources, despite trying to skew them. The top handful of recalls are from electrical fires, 1 ABS (electrical) issue, a handful of battery issues, then at the bottom 1 issue with fuel leaks. Go ask a firefighter which they think is more dangerous.
birdyrooster 4y ago
how about that tesla owner that had to kick out his own window to escape a battery fire because the manual latch wouldn't open the door? tesla makes garbage quality cars, go talk to longer term tesla owners and they will tell you themselves.
themitigating 4y ago
"Bottom line is people believe they're dangerous. I knew that would happen and said so: Telsa et al. needed to do the necessary education before the inevitable headlines hit. They didn't, so here we are. Got modded into the dirt for predicting this." If people "believe" and forgive me for translating that to "feel" they are dangerous what education would Tesla have to do and why would it have worked. Especially with an entire political spectrum dumping EV fears.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  Most humans are emotion/feeling based, even those that believe they are not. You (pretend you’re a car manufacturer person) can Carl Sagan it for yourself all you want, but you’re selling to the broad base of people who vote for very flawed politicians, go to church to worship imaginary sky demons, etc. tl;dr: Your allies and word of mouth do it for you. This is literally why car manufacturers have press and PR offices. You have to not only respond to media, you have to proactively engage politicians, journalists, influencers, etc. What you cannot do is throw up your hands and say “no one will believe us so why bother. Our fanbois get it!”
- topspin 4y ago
  > what education would Tesla have to do and why would it have worked I'd have started with fire departments. We're now replete with horror stories of un-extinguishable fires and re-igniting cars, new headlines appearing routinely with juicy quotes from unprepared fire fighters. That's unnecessary and could have been avoided, obviating the bulk of those headlines. Instead fire fighters could have been advocates. Advocates people listen to.
qdog 4y ago
I usually point out Paul Walker's gas Porsche bursting into flames immediately on impact, one of worst-looking EV crashes I've seen was Richard Hammond, who rolled down a hill in a questionably built car, but was still pulled out prior to the flames. Anecdotal, but gasoline cars on fire are basically bombs.

VectorLock 4y ago

A vehicle fire with an EV is much more dangerous than an ICE. They burn hotter, re-ignite, and take a massive amount of water to put out (like, a pools worth of water)

topspin 4y ago
> A vehicle fire with an EV is much more dangerous than an ICE. No, sorry. A blanket statement likely that isn't meaningful. The failure modes you're comparing are very different and both have aspects that are either more or less "dangerous" than the other. Liquid fuel can spread and ignite very rapidly, whereas damaged batteries tend to smolder for a time before erupting into a large fire. Lithium Ion cells produce large quantities of toxic gases (hydrogen fluoride, in particular, which attacks mucous membranes.) Liquid fuel can be ignited by static electricity from clothing and whatnot. Battery cells can conceal damage from both manufacturing and later events that lead to ignition at unexpected moments. I could go on and on. And for everything I claimed someone else can find an analogous risk with the other. There is no definitive analysis here. Anyone that claims otherwise is talking out of their ass. We won't have answers until there is a fleet full of 20+ year old, neglected electric cars running around getting into wrecks. Even then we'll have to parse the truth from whatever agenda driven narratives prevail at that time.
- VectorLock 4y ago
  The linked article does a nice job of citing their sources, despite trying to skew them. The top handful of recalls are from electrical fires, 1 ABS (electrical) issue, a handful of battery issues, then at the bottom 1 issue with fuel leaks. Go ask a firefighter which they think is more dangerous.

birdyrooster 4y ago

how about that tesla owner that had to kick out his own window to escape a battery fire because the manual latch wouldn't open the door? tesla makes garbage quality cars, go talk to longer term tesla owners and they will tell you themselves.

themitigating 4y ago

"Bottom line is people believe they're dangerous. I knew that would happen and said so: Telsa et al. needed to do the necessary education before the inevitable headlines hit. They didn't, so here we are. Got modded into the dirt for predicting this." If people "believe" and forgive me for translating that to "feel" they are dangerous what education would Tesla have to do and why would it have worked. Especially with an entire political spectrum dumping EV fears.

KerrAvon 4y ago
Most humans are emotion/feeling based, even those that believe they are not. You (pretend you’re a car manufacturer person) can Carl Sagan it for yourself all you want, but you’re selling to the broad base of people who vote for very flawed politicians, go to church to worship imaginary sky demons, etc. tl;dr: Your allies and word of mouth do it for you. This is literally why car manufacturers have press and PR offices. You have to not only respond to media, you have to proactively engage politicians, journalists, influencers, etc. What you cannot do is throw up your hands and say “no one will believe us so why bother. Our fanbois get it!”
topspin 4y ago
> what education would Tesla have to do and why would it have worked I'd have started with fire departments. We're now replete with horror stories of un-extinguishable fires and re-igniting cars, new headlines appearing routinely with juicy quotes from unprepared fire fighters. That's unnecessary and could have been avoided, obviating the bulk of those headlines. Instead fire fighters could have been advocates. Advocates people listen to.

qdog 4y ago

I usually point out Paul Walker's gas Porsche bursting into flames immediately on impact, one of worst-looking EV crashes I've seen was Richard Hammond, who rolled down a hill in a questionably built car, but was still pulled out prior to the flames. Anecdotal, but gasoline cars on fire are basically bombs.