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> Yeah, that's how most things work in the physical world. If you want to secure a widget, then you need to "secure a physical object that grants irrevocable ow

> Yeah, that's how most things work in the physical world. If you want to secure a widget, then you need to "secure a physical object that grants irrevocable ownership" of it. You can’t steal my house by obtaining the deed. You can’t steal my stock by obtaining the stock certificates. That’s not how it works. The vast majority of wealth in developed countries doesn’t rely on physical security to maintain ownership. We’ve collectively outsourced that function to the government and other institutions, so we don’t have to individually hire bodyguards to prevent criminals from taking possession of our homes and stealing our assets. Most people only hold a relatively small amount of wealth in forms that can by physically stolen (eg. petty cash, electronics). This means that you only need to defend yourself against a $1000 crime (stealing your TV), which is a lot easier than defending against a $1M crime (stealing your house or 401k). If crypto requires holding my wealth in a hardware wallet that can be stolen, that means I’m only going to be willing to invest the amount of wealth I would spend on a TV, not the kind of wealth I am going to allocate to stocks or bonds. Granted, crypto has utility for people who can’t use the government-backed institutions, like criminals. And in some countries where the government will steal your money, it has broader appeal. I won’t argue with that.

bbbbb5 4y ago
You can definitely steal houses though. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-59069662 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-59069662 https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/march/housestealing_032508 https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/march/ho... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/she-had-no-idea-her-home-could-be-stolen-then-she-read-her-junk-mail/2019/11/27/13569d0c-065a-11ea-ac12-3325d49eacaa_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/she-had-n... You can also steal stocks. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/us-charges-hacker-for-breaching-brokerage-accounts-securities-fraud/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/us-charges-ha... > The vast majority of wealth in developed countries doesn’t rely on physical security to maintain ownership Indeed, it relies on far sillier things like hoping that nobody spends $100 on a fake ID and pretends to be you.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  When this stuff happens, you can engage in a legal process that has the power to get your property back. The process to recover from this can be slow and difficult. I acknowledge that this is a failure of the institutions involved, which can and should be fixed. However, the existence of these avenues for recovery acts as a strong deterrent that limits the frequency of such crimes. That’s why I am slightly worried about the local gang stealing my TV (and my safe full of Kruggerands) but not at all worried about them stealing my house. When your crypto is stolen, the theft cannot be reversed, by design.
  - bbbbb5 4y ago
    The same legal processes that can be used to recover funds stolen from your bank account or stocks stolen from your brokerage account can be used to recover cryptocurrency. >When your crypto is stolen, the theft cannot be reversed, by design. If someone sends you a phishing link, gets your info, logs into your online banking and sends all of your money overseas, that theft generally can't be reversed either. (You'll find that the CFPB recently updated their Reg E interpretation on this, but that interpretation isn't binding and directly contradicts decades of practice) If you're a business and get hit by banking malware, you're similarly fucked.
    - danaris 4y ago
      > The same legal processes that can be used to recover funds stolen from your bank account or stocks stolen from your brokerage account can be used to recover cryptocurrency. If that is the case, then doesn't that destroy (at least) one of the basic principles of cryptocurrency that people constantly harp on?
      - bbbbb5 4y ago
        No? Why would it? The basic principle will be the same most of the time, you identify the thief and use legal measures to force them to return the funds.
    - 4y ago

bbbbb5 4y ago

You can definitely steal houses though. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-59069662 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-59069662 https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/march/housestealing_032508 https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/march/ho... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/she-had-no-idea-her-home-could-be-stolen-then-she-read-her-junk-mail/2019/11/27/13569d0c-065a-11ea-ac12-3325d49eacaa_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/she-had-n... You can also steal stocks. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/us-charges-hacker-for-breaching-brokerage-accounts-securities-fraud/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/us-charges-ha... > The vast majority of wealth in developed countries doesn’t rely on physical security to maintain ownership Indeed, it relies on far sillier things like hoping that nobody spends $100 on a fake ID and pretends to be you.

fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
When this stuff happens, you can engage in a legal process that has the power to get your property back. The process to recover from this can be slow and difficult. I acknowledge that this is a failure of the institutions involved, which can and should be fixed. However, the existence of these avenues for recovery acts as a strong deterrent that limits the frequency of such crimes. That’s why I am slightly worried about the local gang stealing my TV (and my safe full of Kruggerands) but not at all worried about them stealing my house. When your crypto is stolen, the theft cannot be reversed, by design.
- bbbbb5 4y ago
  The same legal processes that can be used to recover funds stolen from your bank account or stocks stolen from your brokerage account can be used to recover cryptocurrency. >When your crypto is stolen, the theft cannot be reversed, by design. If someone sends you a phishing link, gets your info, logs into your online banking and sends all of your money overseas, that theft generally can't be reversed either. (You'll find that the CFPB recently updated their Reg E interpretation on this, but that interpretation isn't binding and directly contradicts decades of practice) If you're a business and get hit by banking malware, you're similarly fucked.
  - danaris 4y ago
    > The same legal processes that can be used to recover funds stolen from your bank account or stocks stolen from your brokerage account can be used to recover cryptocurrency. If that is the case, then doesn't that destroy (at least) one of the basic principles of cryptocurrency that people constantly harp on?
    - bbbbb5 4y ago
      No? Why would it? The basic principle will be the same most of the time, you identify the thief and use legal measures to force them to return the funds.
  - 4y ago