7 ms·
World wide cost of living rankings for 2012
- hucker 15y agoSeeing this makes me wonder, because I've dabbled with the thought of living a year in NYC ever since I visited this summer, but I have been put off by all the warnings here on HN and elsewhere stating that the cost of living there is insane. My current city of residence, Trondheim, Norway is ranking top for consumer price and second for consumer price + rent in this ranking. And still, living as a single male on state scholarship and loans (which adds up to about $15k a year), I live in a pretty ok standard apartment with a room mate and don't save on food etc. at all. I have zero credit-card debt etc. (I could easily do the same in Stavanger, Norway, which ranks higher for cost of rent.) What am I missing?
- rabble 15y agoNew York is perhaps a very big city, where you can be in 'new york city' and still be 2 hours subway ride from lower manhattan. I'd guess the other thing is that in new york you're exposed to people who are very wealthy. It distorts the perceived cost of living vs actual numbers.
- ryusage 15y agoLooking at the methodology [1], I have some doubts about the validity of all these numbers. Apparently they're at least partially user-submitted, which implies to me that there's likely to be some bias, depending on who actually took the time to submit information. For example, the site claims that residents of Indianapolis, IN have the most (average) purchasing power of anyone in the world, by an incredible margin. Indianapolis is nice enough, but I'd be shocked if that were true. Still a cool/interesting site, but I would take it with a grain of salt. [1] http://www.numbeo.com/common/motivation_and_methodology.jsp http://www.numbeo.com/common/motivation_and_methodology.jsp
- hucker 15y agoYeah, you're right, the methodology doesn't really inspire confidence in the results. As an anecdote though, when I was vacationing there this summer all groceries, restaurants and similar felt incredibly cheap, and although rent on Manhattan was steep, I found a comparable apartment to my own in Williamsburg that had a slightly higher cost than what I am paying now. Maybe what I'm missing is health insurance? How much does it cost a normally fit 21 year old male for full coverage insurance?
- rabble 15y agoMost folks who are fit and 21 just go without health insurance. If you've got a job and aren't contracting, then you usually get insurance through work.
- hucker 15y agoSo.. If I got ill, what would happen? In reality I would have insurance by the norwegian government, but assuming I was american. What does the regular student that doesn't get help from his parents do?
- rm999 15y agoHigh deductible insurance is about 600-1000 dollars a year, and the deductible is 2500-10000 dollars (meaning the first 2500-10000 dollars of your expenses are out of pocket, and then after that everything is covered).
- ryusage 15y agoFrom what I recall, students can be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26 as long as they're still in school. That's what most college students do. If they're not in school, and they don't have their own job that provides health insurance, well...honestly, if they don't have a job that provides it, then they probably don't have a job that pays enough that they can afford to get it independently either. Most of my friends in that situation just gamble and try not to go to a doctor unless absolutely necessary. If they do have to...well, then they're going to be in some serious debt. It's not a very good system, but it works for the people who have influence.
- varelse 15y agoIndeed: rents and real estate prices have zero impact on the CPI. That explains why places like Hong Kong and Shanghai seem so reasonable (which they're not)...
- nemesisj 15y agoI would definitely second your suspicion. There is no way Edinburgh (where I live) can even touch the prices in London, and yet they're listed very closely on these results.
- Domenic_S 15y agoYou can totally share a 1-br apartment for $500/each + utilities. But, NYC apartments (in the low price range) are small, old, and dirty. I did a few months of consulting out in NYC, and the company kept an apartment for just such an occasion. According to Zillow it was a $1500/month (this was some years ago) and about 400 square feet. It was a studio, so the bed was in the living room. What you're hearing is basically a quality of life argument. If that's the kind of situation you want to get into, you should go for it. If you have a family or, you know, want some of your own space, the price rises dramatically.
- rm999 15y agoFamilies live in the outer boroughs. A 3 bedroom apartment in Astoria, Queens will run you about 2000 dollars a month and you are still within a 30 minute commute to most of Manhattan.
- lambtron 15y agoyou can live a reasonably cheap life in new york--live in brooklyn/queens/nj, make food at home or eat in one of the three chinatowns, etc. the expenses add up when you live in manhattan (probably $1k/month minimum depending on neighborhood), go out to eat and drink, and, essentially, exist. every time you walk outside you can deduct like $20 from your bank account.
- shorttime 15y agoI lived in NYC for a bit so I'll tell you what I liked and what I didn't. One of the things I liked the most was the subway and public transportation system. I didn't have a car at the time and the system was relatively cheap. The system allowed me to get back and forth to my job everyday while also enabling me to head down to Manhattan or other boroughs (I was in Queens) for fun. While it did take time, I had time to spare, but not much money so it worked. The people. NYC has a very diverse set of people, like in many other large cities. In NYC, you can meet anyone, with a broad range of cultures, but you are in control of your own destiny. In my experience, nobody (most) talked to anyone unless they knew someone ahead of time. It was a funny feeling at first, people would be sitting directly across from each other (6 feet/2 meters) - totally ignoring each others' existence. But! If you were interested in getting to know someone you could, most people were receptive when talked to. Sure, there are a few assholes, but there's always assholes in the group. Included in this are roommates, if you manage to get a good set of roommates while there, that's awesome. If you don't, you can always move. I was lucky in this respect. NYC has pretty much everything you could want to do, plays, movies, museums, beaches, ice skating, gyms, martial arts, the list goes on except mountain stuff, and even then it's within traveling distance. I enjoy snowboarding so that's one of my main reasons for not wanting to live there. I don't have the time to travel that much anymore, unfortunately. NYC has a huge mount of opportunity in most industries if you're looking for a job. You just have to reach out and capture it, nobody will hand it to you (usually). The things I didn't like... The perception of certain areas. The Bronx, Harlem, some parts of Brooklyn and Queens have bad reputations. Some of it is true but mostly not. There are lot of things in these areas you wouldn't see elsewhere in NYC. I feel you wouldn't get an accurate portrayal of NYC if you didn't go to these areas. The key is to not go out asking for trouble by flashing money around or causing people grief (making people look stupid). Walk confidently and with purpose and you won't usually have an issue. I also wouldn't go wandering around these areas in the dark after drinking either. Initially, I hated the in-your-face sales approaches that vendors typically use. I got used to it, again, act confidently and don't let them take your money unless you really want what they're selling. I'm not sure how grocery stores in Norway work but NYC is nothing like I ever knew. It was tough getting to them and even then, it was often public market or corner store food. It is somewhat expensive. Wholesale stores typically have better deals, if you can find one (BJs, Costco, Sam's Club, etc). After awhile I started missing having a front yard to play with my dogs in. I didn't have much of a yard at the apartments I lived at. It was a very valuable experience. It helped me grow as a person and helped me learn many different things. If I had to do it over again, I would. That's it for now; if you have any questions feel free to ask me. Good luck in your travels.
- ars 15y agoSeems to me there is some good money to be made where high and low cost of living adjoin. For example Vienna and Bratislava. If nothing else, if you can work in the high cost of living place, and live in the low cost area.
- rabble 15y agoOr where it's easy to fly from one place to another. It explains why there are so many hackers in Portland. It's a nice place to live with noticeably cheaper cost of living than Seattle or San Francisco. I know folks who consider it a bedroom community to silicon valley, only 550 miles away.
- larrykubin 15y agoIf you don't mind living in a suburb, the ultimate low cost move is to live in Vancouver, Washington. It is literally a few miles from Portland just across the border. If you work there, you pay no state income taxes. And I'm sure you could rent a place cheaper there as well. If you spend your money in Portland, you pay no sales tax. I don't do this because I love living right in the heart of Portland way too much though.
- devs1010 15y agoI'm a bit intrigued by this, could you elaborate a bit more? Are they working as contractors commuting once a month for meetings, etc or doing their own ventures where they are coming down for meetings with investors?
- kbob 15y agoI, for example, am a regular telecommuting employee of a large company in San Jose. Nominally, I'm in San Jose for one week every quarter, though it has been less than that lately. I spend a lot of time on the phone and on video conferences. PS: Nit. It's about 650 miles from Portland to SJ.
- devs1010 15y ago
- epoxyhockey 15y agoAs an aside: The website uses jQuery's grid plugin ( http://www.trirand.com/blog http://www.trirand.com/blog ) to present the data. There is a newer plugin called DataTables ( http://datatables.net/ http://datatables.net/ ) which I find to be much nicer, especially when combined with JQuery DataTables Editable ( http://code.google.com/p/jquery-datatables-editable/ http://code.google.com/p/jquery-datatables-editable/ ).
- cjfont 15y agoThe interface is horrible, both the table and the map. It's so easy to add info bubbles on Google Maps, not sure why that was left out.
- kirpekar 15y agoDoes anyone know why the purchasing power is so high in Indianapolis, IN? Seems odd.
- shaggyfrog 15y agoAs a Canadian, surprised they didn't include Vancouver. Which I suspect would be at or near the top of the list for this country.
- phalina 15y agoYeah, Montreal and Halifax, but no Vancouver, Calgary or Toronto
- pedalpete 15y agoVancouver is on page two, ahead of Toronto by a few spots (but well worth the cost difference in my opinion)
- shaggyfrog 15y agoBwah, you're absolutely right. Full blame goes to the UI. If I type a query into a search box, I expect it to search the full list. Not just the handful of entries on that page.
- jacques_chester 15y agoThe small map image seems out of sync with the live map. I'm in Darwin, Australia. The small map (correctly in my view) shows us as bright red -- quite expensive -- because of the combination of isolation (high fuel, food, labour costs) and land shortages (ie high rent). I see people in SV and NYC complain about the rent. Well I pay that much ... and I don't earn SV / NYC wages. And I don't live in one of the Earth's great commercial or cultural epicentres. I would if I could. So quitcherwhinin'.
- astrodust 15y agoDarwin looks kind of relaxed and suburban compared to cities with serious geographic constraints. Sydney, San Francisco, Manhattan, and West Vancouver are all jammed tight because of ocean and rivers. They're also stacked to overflowing with tall towers if not simply wall to wall buildings. You're certainly right about the isolated part, though. Might as well be half way around the world from your nearest neighbor!
- jacques_chester 15y agoWe have legal and political constraints that are not visible on a map, mixed in with generous lashings of political incompetence. Basically the same as everywhere, minus the natural advantages to trade. Apart from the ruinous cost of living, Darwin is a city I like living in. I just don't like working here.
- bfung 15y agoI think they mean for 2011 (more precisely, Q4 2011), as we don't have data for 2012 yet. This doesn't inspire confidence in the accuracy of the numbers.
- brc 15y agoUse the year drop down at the top of the page. That loads the 2011 data. You're correct in that the 2012 data is too patchy to be taken seriously. Any list of expensive cities not topped by Oslo is kidding itself. That place is insane.
- tjmc 15y agoI'd like to see where Perth sits on that scale. There's a pub here that charges $18 (~$19US) for a pint of Hoegaarden and an average pint of beer is $10.
- brc 15y agoCheck the 2011 rankings. Perth comes in just after the usual Norway and Switzerland usual suspects. I don't know how it can be fixed, but Australia's insane cost of living explosion needs to be sorted out. I suspect most of it is real-estate related (ie, the pub needs to pay huge rent so passes it on in beer costs). It used to be that someone in the UK or USA could sell their house and move to Australia and live the good life. Now that same strategy would see you living a crappy life in a bad suburb. Several of my friends have recently made the decision to move to the USA where they can. The economy isn't great, but the cost of living can't be beat if you do have a job.
- tjmc 15y agoIt's partially real estate, but I think it's also a combination of a tight labour market distorted by big mining wages and a "captive audience". Perth (and Darwin) are so isolated that the hospitality industry seem to get away with murder. The good news for HNers - there is abundant work here. If you know people outside the tech scene, they could do a lot worse than get a working holiday visa and visit Australia whilst the US or UK economies improve.
- bane 15y agoIn the States we'll just drive further out and try to urban sprawl our way out of high housing prices...usually with miserable traffic problems as a result. Any idea why Australia, with more than ample land, and relatively small population doesn't attempt the same? (not saying it's a good idea, but interesting to notice at any rate)
- brc 15y agoUsually urban planning restrictions and poor roads stops too much outward flow. Having said that, I do believe Perth is spreading fast enough. However new suburbs that are constructed are rarely considered 'affordable' suburbs. They are usually shiny new estates with big houses.
- devs1010 15y agoWell, this is definitely not entirely accurate. It has Phoenix, AZ as being more expensive than San Jose, CA. Having lived in both places I can say the cost of living in Phoenix is about half that of San Jose so its entirely wrong on that. I suppose its just mean to give a general idea overall and maybe was taking in data in some strange way to where it counted a large rural area that also included San Jose, or something, against just the urban area of Phoenix.
- wiradikusuma 15y agoHow do I compare cities? (e.g. Axxx with Zxxx)
- Gaussian 15y agoSuspect. The grocery index for Chicago is 72 and in Baltimore it's 101. Are groceries really 40% more in Baltimore than in Chicago? They're likely not more at all. In fact, on the whole, Chicago is more expensive than Baltimore. That's just a fact. But the figures here say otherwise.
- sologoub 15y agoAgree - looking at 2011 Moscow, Russia, it shows it as way cheaper than most US cities, but Moscow routinely ranks in top 5 most expensive cities on earth. Real estate prices there are comparable to NYC and food prices aren't cheap either (was just there few months ago).
- cema 15y agoHave not been to Chicago in a while, from my older (several years old) recollections it is not drastically different from Baltimore. However: Moscow is definitely cheaper than its usual "top 5" ranking. For a middle class visitor or city dweller, anyway (cannot say for a very short-term business visitor). Caveat: knowing Russian would help greatly but is not mandatory.
- paraschopra 15y agoAll indian cities comfortably sit at the bottom of the scale!
- cr4zy 15y agoThis totally flies in the face of Wolphram Alpha's data: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=chicago+vs+phoenix+vs+dallas+vs+san+jose+vs+new+york+city+vs+san+francisco+vs+austin+texas+vs+denver+vs+las+vegas+vs+atlanta+vs+los+angeles+vs+seattle+cost+of+living http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=chicago+vs+phoenix+vs+d... Phoenix, where I live, is cheaper according to Wolphram Alpha than Dallas, Las Vegas, Chicago, and Devner whereas it's more expensive according to Numbeo's list.