4 ms·

Narcissism. My grandmother was a terrible narcissist. I loved her dearly and she had a lot of wonderful qualities, but The quality that stood out the most, sad

Narcissism. My grandmother was a terrible narcissist. I loved her dearly and she had a lot of wonderful qualities, but The quality that stood out the most, sadly, was narcissism. My mother was also a narcissist to a somewhat lesser degree. It didn't occur to me that I too was a narcissist until I was about 35 years old. It took waking up in the corner of the living room in my friends one bedroom apartment Early one morning to see it. I had pushed away my wife and kids because in my mind all of my problems were their fault. I had blamed others for every thing that had ever happened to me or every feeling that I had felt. And in that moment I realized: It's ME. Everything changed in that instant. It was no longer just about me anymore. I stopped seeing the people closest to me as opponents and started seeing them as what they were, family. My support system. The love of my life. As the years have gone by since then I have seen more of my past through that light and things have become so much more clear. Understanding that my grandmother was a very damaged person who turned a narcissist to deal with it, then raise my mother similarly, help me understand two things. The first was that the things I blamed myself for in the past weren't my fault. Secondly, it helped me forgive them for some of the awful things that happened. I'm not saying it's okay to be a narcissist. But recognizing that their narcissism affected my life, and it was something that I could shed in my own personality was a serious life changer. And the funny part is that after I realized all of this, my debilitating depression essentially went away. And that was a big deal. I also learned not even 2 years ago that I have ADHD which was like a light bulb moment for me as well because it explained so much of my life.

whimsicalism 4y ago
I find it interesting when people come from a long family line of narcissists (not uncommon) that they often attribute it to a cycle of being raised by a narcissist making you into a narcissist. it seems more likely that there is a genetic/biological basis for this personality trait
- chottocharaii 4y ago
  or it could be a biological disposition to developing it as a response to the trauma of being raised by a narcissist
  - electrondood 4y ago
    I've come to believe that a deep childhood wound (parental divorce, neglect, abuse, or being adopted, etc.) predisposes one to become a narcissist when combined with the message that you are special, different from others, etc. Steve Jobs, for example. He wasn't as malevolent as Donald Trump, but both have both factors: the childhood trauma + the message that they were special. I have several acquaintances who are narcissists and have both factors as well. I think that the trauma without the message that you are special and different predisposes someone to become a hyper-achiever, where ambition is a channel for the pain. See: Elon Musk, Tim Ferris, etc.
    - geocrasher 4y ago
      I've come to believe that a deep childhood wound (parental divorce, neglect, abuse, or being adopted, etc.) predisposes one to become a narcissist when combined with the message that you are special, different from others, etc. You just described my childhood.
- zwkrt 4y ago
  It’s possible but I don’t really buy it. There’s a very real sense in which narcissism is just a lack of acquired skills that most people have. That skill being the ability to see both the good things and the bad things about yourself and about others at the same time. If you’re raised in an environment where your caretaker teaches you they are always right (with severe consequences for pointing out they aren’t) then it is hard to develop a nuanced worldview. The child can either get on board with the parent, become “one of the good ones” and become a narcissist themselves or they can become a black sheep of the family, usually with worse outcomes. Importantly, the skills can be learned as an adult it’s just hard to do. I come from a long lineage of family members who did not know how to swim, but I don’t think that there’s a genetic basis for this.
  - geocrasher 4y ago
    You hit it on the nail head with lack of coping skills. I had a grandmother who tried to compensate for the way my mother treated me by treating me like I was royalty. And my coping mechanism for being treated poorly at home was thinking that I was better than everybody else in some way. Combine those two with the fact that I was taught no coping skills, and yes I became a narcissist. When I had my awakening, I was finally able to put to work some coping skills I learned the hard way, in a mental hospital. But once I realized the problem was me, the changes were instant. I was ready for change. Unfortunately, some people have no such awakening. And I avoid those types of people like the plague.
- SebKba 4y ago
  I think genetics are completely misunderstood. I also have serious Narcissism in my family and to me it very much looks like that's the world view you learn if that's how it's demonstrated to you as a small child. Small children have no filter on inputs also. If dad isn't around because mother is unbearable and she lives a narcissistic reality it becomes the water that you swim in. I don't think there is genetic code that determines that you think other people are to blame for everything! Random theory: Children of narcissists like IT because it's a world that is very predictable with rational explanations.
runald 4y ago
It's interesting to read that you slowly shift the narrative from accepting your faults to making excuses to blame externalities, like inherited narcissism and ADHD. Look the word up, it's essentially an umbrella term that pretty much describes anything that can be considered negative, almost to the point that it's meaningless, except as a convenient tool to antagonize people. Selfishness and self-admiration is spectrum, everyone possess it one way or another. To claim otherwise is inhuman. Clearly, there are actual extreme narcissists, but they are not as frequent as people use the term loosely nowadays. Disclaimer: not a psychologist, but probably neither are you.
- aexer0e 4y ago
  I don't think he was trying to justify or excuse his way out of his bad qualities in the second part; It felt more like he was pinpointing the reason. I'd say it's okay for people to give reasons for bad actions as long as they they still admit to wrongdoing and don't use that reason as an excuse for it being okay.
  - geocrasher 4y ago
    Indeed. It wasn't justification any more than Root Cause Analysis is making excuses for a systems failure.
- alphydan 4y ago
  > Look the word up, it's essentially an umbrella term that pretty much describes anything that can be considered negative I suggest you look up the difference between the common sense of the word narcissism and the psychiatric diagnosis (which has a more rigorous and specific definition).
Balgair 4y ago
Hey! Glad to hear you're on a better path. Thank you for sharing. Please continue to contribute here on HN, I really appreciated your comment and experience.
- geocrasher 4y ago
  Thank you for your kind reply :)

whimsicalism 4y ago

I find it interesting when people come from a long family line of narcissists (not uncommon) that they often attribute it to a cycle of being raised by a narcissist making you into a narcissist. it seems more likely that there is a genetic/biological basis for this personality trait

chottocharaii 4y ago
or it could be a biological disposition to developing it as a response to the trauma of being raised by a narcissist
- electrondood 4y ago
  I've come to believe that a deep childhood wound (parental divorce, neglect, abuse, or being adopted, etc.) predisposes one to become a narcissist when combined with the message that you are special, different from others, etc. Steve Jobs, for example. He wasn't as malevolent as Donald Trump, but both have both factors: the childhood trauma + the message that they were special. I have several acquaintances who are narcissists and have both factors as well. I think that the trauma without the message that you are special and different predisposes someone to become a hyper-achiever, where ambition is a channel for the pain. See: Elon Musk, Tim Ferris, etc.
  - geocrasher 4y ago
    I've come to believe that a deep childhood wound (parental divorce, neglect, abuse, or being adopted, etc.) predisposes one to become a narcissist when combined with the message that you are special, different from others, etc. You just described my childhood.
zwkrt 4y ago
It’s possible but I don’t really buy it. There’s a very real sense in which narcissism is just a lack of acquired skills that most people have. That skill being the ability to see both the good things and the bad things about yourself and about others at the same time. If you’re raised in an environment where your caretaker teaches you they are always right (with severe consequences for pointing out they aren’t) then it is hard to develop a nuanced worldview. The child can either get on board with the parent, become “one of the good ones” and become a narcissist themselves or they can become a black sheep of the family, usually with worse outcomes. Importantly, the skills can be learned as an adult it’s just hard to do. I come from a long lineage of family members who did not know how to swim, but I don’t think that there’s a genetic basis for this.
- geocrasher 4y ago
  You hit it on the nail head with lack of coping skills. I had a grandmother who tried to compensate for the way my mother treated me by treating me like I was royalty. And my coping mechanism for being treated poorly at home was thinking that I was better than everybody else in some way. Combine those two with the fact that I was taught no coping skills, and yes I became a narcissist. When I had my awakening, I was finally able to put to work some coping skills I learned the hard way, in a mental hospital. But once I realized the problem was me, the changes were instant. I was ready for change. Unfortunately, some people have no such awakening. And I avoid those types of people like the plague.
SebKba 4y ago
I think genetics are completely misunderstood. I also have serious Narcissism in my family and to me it very much looks like that's the world view you learn if that's how it's demonstrated to you as a small child. Small children have no filter on inputs also. If dad isn't around because mother is unbearable and she lives a narcissistic reality it becomes the water that you swim in. I don't think there is genetic code that determines that you think other people are to blame for everything! Random theory: Children of narcissists like IT because it's a world that is very predictable with rational explanations.

runald 4y ago

It's interesting to read that you slowly shift the narrative from accepting your faults to making excuses to blame externalities, like inherited narcissism and ADHD. Look the word up, it's essentially an umbrella term that pretty much describes anything that can be considered negative, almost to the point that it's meaningless, except as a convenient tool to antagonize people. Selfishness and self-admiration is spectrum, everyone possess it one way or another. To claim otherwise is inhuman. Clearly, there are actual extreme narcissists, but they are not as frequent as people use the term loosely nowadays. Disclaimer: not a psychologist, but probably neither are you.

aexer0e 4y ago
I don't think he was trying to justify or excuse his way out of his bad qualities in the second part; It felt more like he was pinpointing the reason. I'd say it's okay for people to give reasons for bad actions as long as they they still admit to wrongdoing and don't use that reason as an excuse for it being okay.
- geocrasher 4y ago
  Indeed. It wasn't justification any more than Root Cause Analysis is making excuses for a systems failure.
alphydan 4y ago
> Look the word up, it's essentially an umbrella term that pretty much describes anything that can be considered negative I suggest you look up the difference between the common sense of the word narcissism and the psychiatric diagnosis (which has a more rigorous and specific definition).

Balgair 4y ago

Hey! Glad to hear you're on a better path. Thank you for sharing. Please continue to contribute here on HN, I really appreciated your comment and experience.

geocrasher 4y ago
Thank you for your kind reply :)