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> communist Sorry, this is just the kind of exaggerated rhetoric that made the situation to become polarised like this. I really encourage you to stop propaga

> communist Sorry, this is just the kind of exaggerated rhetoric that made the situation to become polarised like this. I really encourage you to stop propagating this kind of nonsense.

matheusmoreira 4y ago
Exaggerated? Do you want me to post the video of him saying his objective is the installation of socialism in Brazil? The one they said was fake news? Are you going to claim the decades old video is fabricated? I really encourage you not to reply to me again.
- borski 4y ago
  Genuine question: is it possible he changed his mind? Lots of people said things decades ago that they felt was true or good at the time, but over time people are allowed to change their opinions and learn, right? What is to say that hasn’t happened to Lula?
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    I have relatively recent videos of him talking with his communist guru about his own age and his desire for a last revolution before he dies. In the same video, he talks about how the government should confiscate people's inheritance so they can't accumulate money. "The state should determine what people need to survive", he said. "If you need shoes, the state will give you shoes; if you need a rural property, the state will give you one". I think these videos are not even a couple years old. While it is theoretically possible that he changed his mind, I wouldn't bet on it.
    - borski 4y ago
      You’re welcome to link to them and allow us to judge for ourselves! :)
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Sure, it's right here. I'll translate quotes more accurately directly from his speech now. In my last post, I was quoting him from my own memory. https://youtu.be/HzAr4WpYAow?t=2884 https://youtu.be/HzAr4WpYAow?t=2884 > Human beings must understand that they have limitations. > We have to define what each of us needs. > Let's write a theory on what human beings need to survive. > Does he need a car? Okay, he'll have a car. > Does he need a beach house? Okay, he'll have a beach house. > Does he need a rural home? Okay, he'll have a rural home. > Three pairs of shoes? Okay. > It gets to a point where he no longer has needs, so he shouldn't accumulate money. > What is someone going to store 130 billions of dollars for? > What is he going to do? When he dies? > Let some parasites who never worked keep the money? > While the people are hungry?
        jemmyw 4y ago
        I mean, what he says isn't untrue. Past a certain point the accumulation of wealth is negative, a point that most people will never reach. And many countries have inheritance tax that's not a communist thing... After all, you wouldn't need it in a communist system.
        matheusmoreira 4y ago
        What he says is literal communist ideology. This is clear the second he starts defining his theory of what people "need" to survive and implying the state should provide them no more and no less than that. This is compounded by his idea that families working hard to accumulate wealth over generations is "parasitism". In other public appearances, he also said things like the middle class is "ostentatious" for having a better life than what's strictly necessary to survive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism > This distinction can be observed in Marx's communism, where the distribution of products is based on the principle of "to each according to his needs" > As the productive forces continued to advance, the communist society, i.e. a classless, stateless, humane society based on common ownership, follows the maxim "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_needs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_abi... > Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.
hashtag-til 4y ago
Socialism and communism are not really the same thing, just to clarify, FYI.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > Socialism and communism are not really the same thing Seriously, dude?
- hashtag-til 4y ago
  > Seriously, dude? Yes, but more importantly, many in Brazil are not really aware of their privileges and the biggest challenge of this presidency will be trying to reduce inequalities, despite being a cause that many - as seen in this commenting thread - don’t support and simply label as “communism”.

> communist Sorry, this is just the kind of exaggerated rhetoric that made the situation to become polarised like this. I really encourage you to stop propagating this kind of nonsense.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

Exaggerated? Do you want me to post the video of him saying his objective is the installation of socialism in Brazil? The one they said was fake news? Are you going to claim the decades old video is fabricated? I really encourage you not to reply to me again.

borski 4y ago
Genuine question: is it possible he changed his mind? Lots of people said things decades ago that they felt was true or good at the time, but over time people are allowed to change their opinions and learn, right? What is to say that hasn’t happened to Lula?
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  I have relatively recent videos of him talking with his communist guru about his own age and his desire for a last revolution before he dies. In the same video, he talks about how the government should confiscate people's inheritance so they can't accumulate money. "The state should determine what people need to survive", he said. "If you need shoes, the state will give you shoes; if you need a rural property, the state will give you one". I think these videos are not even a couple years old. While it is theoretically possible that he changed his mind, I wouldn't bet on it.
  - borski 4y ago
    You’re welcome to link to them and allow us to judge for ourselves! :)
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      Sure, it's right here. I'll translate quotes more accurately directly from his speech now. In my last post, I was quoting him from my own memory. https://youtu.be/HzAr4WpYAow?t=2884 https://youtu.be/HzAr4WpYAow?t=2884 > Human beings must understand that they have limitations. > We have to define what each of us needs. > Let's write a theory on what human beings need to survive. > Does he need a car? Okay, he'll have a car. > Does he need a beach house? Okay, he'll have a beach house. > Does he need a rural home? Okay, he'll have a rural home. > Three pairs of shoes? Okay. > It gets to a point where he no longer has needs, so he shouldn't accumulate money. > What is someone going to store 130 billions of dollars for? > What is he going to do? When he dies? > Let some parasites who never worked keep the money? > While the people are hungry?
      - jemmyw 4y ago
        I mean, what he says isn't untrue. Past a certain point the accumulation of wealth is negative, a point that most people will never reach. And many countries have inheritance tax that's not a communist thing... After all, you wouldn't need it in a communist system.
        matheusmoreira 4y ago
        What he says is literal communist ideology. This is clear the second he starts defining his theory of what people "need" to survive and implying the state should provide them no more and no less than that. This is compounded by his idea that families working hard to accumulate wealth over generations is "parasitism". In other public appearances, he also said things like the middle class is "ostentatious" for having a better life than what's strictly necessary to survive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism > This distinction can be observed in Marx's communism, where the distribution of products is based on the principle of "to each according to his needs" > As the productive forces continued to advance, the communist society, i.e. a classless, stateless, humane society based on common ownership, follows the maxim "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_needs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_abi... > Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.

hashtag-til 4y ago

Socialism and communism are not really the same thing, just to clarify, FYI.

matheusmoreira 4y ago
> Socialism and communism are not really the same thing Seriously, dude?
hashtag-til 4y ago
> Seriously, dude? Yes, but more importantly, many in Brazil are not really aware of their privileges and the biggest challenge of this presidency will be trying to reduce inequalities, despite being a cause that many - as seen in this commenting thread - don’t support and simply label as “communism”.