5 ms·

Cheaper than free: paying for music after searching for a free download

139 points by spatten 15y ago

NE0313 15y ago
For example, just this morning someone paid $10 for an album after Googling lelia broussard torrent. A bit later, a fan plunked down $17 after searching for murder by death, skeletons in the closet, mediafire. Where do they get this data?
- ars 15y ago
  From the referer header. If someone clicks from google the search fields are transmitted in the referrer. If this bothers you, use duckduckgo.com which has a special bounce-page to hide this info.
  - ohgodthecat 15y ago
    Or use https search, google doesn't even require you to go to encrypted.google.com [1] [1] https://www.google.com/ https://www.google.com/
    - spindritf 15y ago
      Won't the referrer still be sent if the target site is available over SSL?
      - ComputerGuru 15y ago
        Yes, but the referrer will only be google.com. Google SSL uses POST for the search query parameters, so the referrer URI w/ GET parameters will not leak your search terms.
  - spindritf 15y ago
    > If this bothers you, use duckduckgo.com which has a special bounce-page to hide this info. Or something like RefControl http://www.stardrifter.org/refcontrol/ http://www.stardrifter.org/refcontrol/ for Firefox and control what and to whom you send.
d135-1r43 15y ago
This can work for some special interest bands that are arty and hip and young and sexy. It will not work for conservative musical genres and pop music.
- TheHegemon 15y ago
  > It will not work for conservative musical genres and pop music. I don't see why it can't work for most musical genres. I have bought music from bandcamp that spans dozens of different genres. As for pop music, good riddance. I'd rather artists get paid because their music is good, not because some company is paying millions a year to market the hell out it.
  - DarkShikari 15y ago
    I think what the GP means is that it won't mesh well with certain outdated marketing methods used for certain target audiences. The genre itself is merely correlated with this, not directly linked. Which is perfectly okay. We're in an age where music production is so accessible that a few talented musicians can make music of better quality than a top "pop band" and sell it with near-zero distribution costs. The production cost of a full album, including paying a talented, professionally trained vocalist, is now down to just a few thousand dollars. As a result, there's a massive, ever-increasing supply of incredibly high-quality music that never touched a record label. The genre and style are irrelevant. "Pop artists" these days are now more a matter of selling idols than selling sound. Let the music be made by actual musicians: Justin Bieber and AKB48 were never marketed based on their music to begin with.
    - nedwin 15y ago
      Exactly. A "one-size fits all" model isn't going to work in the fragmented music market. Pop artists & their labels already know how to make money selling music, this model is more in tune to the less-than-mainstream.
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  Even Youtube seems to have worked for some singers like Justin Bieber and Rebecca Black.
d135-1r43 15y ago
This can work for some special interest bands that are arty and hip and young and sexy. It will not work for conservative musical genres and pop music.
TomasSedovic 15y ago
I didn't know Bandcamp but a few days ago I wanted to buy the Bastion soundtrack. The Bandcamp link was the first hit on Google and it was linked from the game's official page so I went there. I could listen to all the songs without restriction, pick from a variety of reasonable formats (including ogg) and download the same album to my computer at work the next day without any trouble. This is how you do it. They treated me like a customer not a criminal and it was actually easier than using BitTorrent. I was happy to give these folks my money.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- dekz 15y ago
  Bandcamp is a fantastic service, my friends and I absolutely love it. I love the ability to preview the mp3 audio at 128kpbs without flash. Noting that bandcamp takes 10-15% of the sale, with the rest going to the artist is what keeps me going back there first to look for music instead of iTunes. Only downside is discovery of music on bandcamp, a side project I'm currently working on is a tool for myself to find new music on bandcamp; unfortunately their APIs aren't designed for finding similar artists.
  - TomasSedovic 15y ago
    Heh, the reason I used Bandcamp instead of iTunes is that it runs on Linux and that they actually want my money :-). At least in some countries (mine included) you can't in fact buy music or video from iTunes. They won't accept your paypal or credit card. There is a workaround -- buying and redeeming gift codes. But honestly, I can't be arsed to that.
  - thirdsun 15y ago
    oh, please do that! I agree that it's hard to discover new content on Bandcamp. Apart from that the service is great. Very transparent and straight process of buying and a great full length player that has no issues on mobile devices. Being a musician and considering moving to Bandcamp since the small labels I worked aren't very good at marketing their releases, I wonder how Bandcamp works for other artists compared to other stores like iTunes, amazon, etc. Are there any stats available?
JoshTriplett 15y ago
Another interesting point: bandcamp does not in any way prevent users from downloading songs from them for free. A quick "view source" makes it trivial to determine the actual URLs for all the songs in an album, as do any number of standard tools for downloading files referenced by a page. Despite that, they make it easy for people to actually purchase songs and albums rather than just downloading them, and thus people do purchase them rather than just downloading them. They explicitly point out this approach in their FAQ: http://bandcamp.com/faq#steal http://bandcamp.com/faq#steal .
failrate 15y ago
I use Bandcamp from the other side, and it is a fantastic service. They not only know the music industry from the inside out (read "Bandcamp for Drummers"), but I've literally never had any problem with their site's functionality.
marknutter 15y ago
I still think paying more than a few cents per song is insane. Who set these prices? They're not based on actual scarcity or supply and demand.
- rimantas 15y ago
  Why? Do you think there are plenty of Queens around?
  - marknutter 15y ago
    I'm not paying for the band itself, I'm paying for digital bits which are an infinite supply.

139 points by spatten 15y ago

For example, just this morning someone paid $10 for an album after Googling lelia broussard torrent. A bit later, a fan plunked down $17 after searching for murder by death, skeletons in the closet, mediafire. Where do they get this data?

ars 15y ago
From the referer header. If someone clicks from google the search fields are transmitted in the referrer. If this bothers you, use duckduckgo.com which has a special bounce-page to hide this info.
- ohgodthecat 15y ago
  Or use https search, google doesn't even require you to go to encrypted.google.com [1] [1] https://www.google.com/ https://www.google.com/
  - spindritf 15y ago
    Won't the referrer still be sent if the target site is available over SSL?
    - ComputerGuru 15y ago
      Yes, but the referrer will only be google.com. Google SSL uses POST for the search query parameters, so the referrer URI w/ GET parameters will not leak your search terms.
- spindritf 15y ago
  > If this bothers you, use duckduckgo.com which has a special bounce-page to hide this info. Or something like RefControl http://www.stardrifter.org/refcontrol/ http://www.stardrifter.org/refcontrol/ for Firefox and control what and to whom you send.

d135-1r43 15y ago

This can work for some special interest bands that are arty and hip and young and sexy. It will not work for conservative musical genres and pop music.

TheHegemon 15y ago
> It will not work for conservative musical genres and pop music. I don't see why it can't work for most musical genres. I have bought music from bandcamp that spans dozens of different genres. As for pop music, good riddance. I'd rather artists get paid because their music is good, not because some company is paying millions a year to market the hell out it.
- DarkShikari 15y ago
  I think what the GP means is that it won't mesh well with certain outdated marketing methods used for certain target audiences. The genre itself is merely correlated with this, not directly linked. Which is perfectly okay. We're in an age where music production is so accessible that a few talented musicians can make music of better quality than a top "pop band" and sell it with near-zero distribution costs. The production cost of a full album, including paying a talented, professionally trained vocalist, is now down to just a few thousand dollars. As a result, there's a massive, ever-increasing supply of incredibly high-quality music that never touched a record label. The genre and style are irrelevant. "Pop artists" these days are now more a matter of selling idols than selling sound. Let the music be made by actual musicians: Justin Bieber and AKB48 were never marketed based on their music to begin with.
  - nedwin 15y ago
    Exactly. A "one-size fits all" model isn't going to work in the fragmented music market. Pop artists & their labels already know how to make money selling music, this model is more in tune to the less-than-mainstream.
nextparadigms 15y ago
Even Youtube seems to have worked for some singers like Justin Bieber and Rebecca Black.

d135-1r43 15y ago

This can work for some special interest bands that are arty and hip and young and sexy. It will not work for conservative musical genres and pop music.

TomasSedovic 15y ago

I didn't know Bandcamp but a few days ago I wanted to buy the Bastion soundtrack. The Bandcamp link was the first hit on Google and it was linked from the game's official page so I went there. I could listen to all the songs without restriction, pick from a variety of reasonable formats (including ogg) and download the same album to my computer at work the next day without any trouble. This is how you do it. They treated me like a customer not a criminal and it was actually easier than using BitTorrent. I was happy to give these folks my money.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
dekz 15y ago
Bandcamp is a fantastic service, my friends and I absolutely love it. I love the ability to preview the mp3 audio at 128kpbs without flash. Noting that bandcamp takes 10-15% of the sale, with the rest going to the artist is what keeps me going back there first to look for music instead of iTunes. Only downside is discovery of music on bandcamp, a side project I'm currently working on is a tool for myself to find new music on bandcamp; unfortunately their APIs aren't designed for finding similar artists.
- TomasSedovic 15y ago
  Heh, the reason I used Bandcamp instead of iTunes is that it runs on Linux and that they actually want my money :-). At least in some countries (mine included) you can't in fact buy music or video from iTunes. They won't accept your paypal or credit card. There is a workaround -- buying and redeeming gift codes. But honestly, I can't be arsed to that.
- thirdsun 15y ago
  oh, please do that! I agree that it's hard to discover new content on Bandcamp. Apart from that the service is great. Very transparent and straight process of buying and a great full length player that has no issues on mobile devices. Being a musician and considering moving to Bandcamp since the small labels I worked aren't very good at marketing their releases, I wonder how Bandcamp works for other artists compared to other stores like iTunes, amazon, etc. Are there any stats available?

JoshTriplett 15y ago

Another interesting point: bandcamp does not in any way prevent users from downloading songs from them for free. A quick "view source" makes it trivial to determine the actual URLs for all the songs in an album, as do any number of standard tools for downloading files referenced by a page. Despite that, they make it easy for people to actually purchase songs and albums rather than just downloading them, and thus people do purchase them rather than just downloading them. They explicitly point out this approach in their FAQ: http://bandcamp.com/faq#steal http://bandcamp.com/faq#steal .

failrate 15y ago

I use Bandcamp from the other side, and it is a fantastic service. They not only know the music industry from the inside out (read "Bandcamp for Drummers"), but I've literally never had any problem with their site's functionality.

marknutter 15y ago

I still think paying more than a few cents per song is insane. Who set these prices? They're not based on actual scarcity or supply and demand.

rimantas 15y ago
Why? Do you think there are plenty of Queens around?
- marknutter 15y ago
  I'm not paying for the band itself, I'm paying for digital bits which are an infinite supply.