9 ms·

In a democratic country, why would Bolsonaro flee if he is innocent?

by arunc 4y ago

josephcsible 4y ago
I get the exact opposite impression from this. If Bolsonaro were actually guilty of any wrongdoing, as opposed to fleeing phony charges by a corrupt government, wouldn't he have picked somewhere more friendly to crime than the US to flee to?
- bongoman37 4y ago
  The US is pretty friendly to despots as long as they haven't done anything specifically against US interests.
  - borski 4y ago
    Moreover, he specifically fled to Florida which has far fewer regulations than, say, CA or NY.
- jackmott 4y ago
  [dead]
mannerheim 4y ago
In a democratic country, why would they imprison Lula for two years if he wasn't guilty?
- airstrike 4y ago
  But he was guilty, was he not? His conviction was later annulled because the Supreme Court sided with his lawyers' appeal that Lula should have been tried in Brasilia, not the state court in Parana[1] No court has ever declared him quote-unquote "innocent". I'm not saying he should be in jail because I believe in due process, but I am also not saying "he wasn't guilty" from the perspective of the electorate Said differently, "In a democratic country, why would the electorate vote to reelect someone who was objectively guilty of corruption but is currently free due to lousy due process?" is arguably the better question to ask Preemptive dis-disclaimer: I voted for neither candidate and have no skin in the game, so to speak __________ 1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56326389 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56326389
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    Judged guilty by multiple judges. Sentences annuled by the supreme court judge who'd go on to censor and persecute Bolsonaro supporters. Lula thanked him for his help in getting him elected during his speech today.
    - hashtag-til 4y ago
      Forgot to mention that said judges got prominent roles in Bolsonaro goverment, literally months after ruling in favour of Lula to be arrested. Apart from all that is always surprising to see folks that work in scientific fields to support Bolsonaro who was completely agains any form of science and education, basically being happy that Brazil would be just a commodities exporter ftw.
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Forgot to mention the piles of evidence and testimony pointing at him, all thrown out and rendered inadmissible by the supreme court judge in his pocket based on some bullshit technicality. > Apart from all that is always surprising to see folks that work in scientific fields to support Bolsonaro who was completely agains any form of science and education Are you a software developer in Brazil? I wonder if you're going to enjoy the regulation of the software developer profession. It's coming.
      - hashtag-til 4y ago
        > Are you a software developer in Brazil? I wonder if you're going to enjoy the regulation of the software developer profession. It's coming. I think this is yet another pointless fearmongering anecdote, that shouldn’t be on this site. Anyway, I am a software developer that is in the market long enough to see that this sort of regulation thing is never going to materialise. I know for a fact that investiment in scientific fields was reduced to near zero during Bolsonaro years and that for me is inadmissible.
    - cassianoleal 4y ago
      > Lula thanked him for his help in getting him elected during his speech today. No. Lula and the other authorities congratulated him and thanked him for helping conduct fair elections. Those in turn got Lula elected.
- hashtag-til 4y ago
  It is very possible to actually game the system with phony charges, and make them stick. No surprise that the most vocal judge prosecuting these charges was later named as minister by Bolsonaro.
  - mannerheim 4y ago
    In that case, it's also possible for Bolsonaro to be imprisoned for multiple years on phony charges and therefore rational for him to leave, is it not?
matheusmoreira 4y ago
[flagged]
- mr90210 4y ago
  Unfortunately you guys did not have an alternative candidate, which I was rooting for. Lula had his time, when the world was a lot different. Anyway, I hope he doesn’t tank the beautiful country and full of potential Brasil is. Tamos juntos!
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > Unfortunately you guys did not have an alternative candidate, which I was rooting for. I agree with you. I don't really support Bolsonaro, I wish we had better candidates. I'm just so sad to see this communist become president again.
    - hashtag-til 4y ago
      > communist Sorry, this is just the kind of exaggerated rhetoric that made the situation to become polarised like this. I really encourage you to stop propagating this kind of nonsense.
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        Exaggerated? Do you want me to post the video of him saying his objective is the installation of socialism in Brazil? The one they said was fake news? Are you going to claim the decades old video is fabricated? I really encourage you not to reply to me again.
        borski 4y ago
        Genuine question: is it possible he changed his mind? Lots of people said things decades ago that they felt was true or good at the time, but over time people are allowed to change their opinions and learn, right? What is to say that hasn’t happened to Lula?
Veen 4y ago
Because he's concerned he'll be charged with corruption now he's no longer immune from prosecution. He might be guilty of corruption or he might not. Either way, 'democracy' isn't a magical state of affairs that eliminates malicious prosecution and politically motivated miscarriages of justice.
_-david-_ 4y ago
Just because it is a democratic country doesn't mean it is free from corrupt or malicious persecution.
hulitu 4y ago
He just went home. His mission, for the time being, has ended.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  What mission?

In a democratic country, why would Bolsonaro flee if he is innocent?

by arunc 4y ago

In a democratic country, why would Bolsonaro flee if he is innocent?

I get the exact opposite impression from this. If Bolsonaro were actually guilty of any wrongdoing, as opposed to fleeing phony charges by a corrupt government, wouldn't he have picked somewhere more friendly to crime than the US to flee to?

bongoman37 4y ago
The US is pretty friendly to despots as long as they haven't done anything specifically against US interests.
- borski 4y ago
  Moreover, he specifically fled to Florida which has far fewer regulations than, say, CA or NY.
jackmott 4y ago
[dead]

mannerheim 4y ago

In a democratic country, why would they imprison Lula for two years if he wasn't guilty?

airstrike 4y ago
But he was guilty, was he not? His conviction was later annulled because the Supreme Court sided with his lawyers' appeal that Lula should have been tried in Brasilia, not the state court in Parana[1] No court has ever declared him quote-unquote "innocent". I'm not saying he should be in jail because I believe in due process, but I am also not saying "he wasn't guilty" from the perspective of the electorate Said differently, "In a democratic country, why would the electorate vote to reelect someone who was objectively guilty of corruption but is currently free due to lousy due process?" is arguably the better question to ask Preemptive dis-disclaimer: I voted for neither candidate and have no skin in the game, so to speak __________ 1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56326389 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56326389
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  Judged guilty by multiple judges. Sentences annuled by the supreme court judge who'd go on to censor and persecute Bolsonaro supporters. Lula thanked him for his help in getting him elected during his speech today.
  - hashtag-til 4y ago
    Forgot to mention that said judges got prominent roles in Bolsonaro goverment, literally months after ruling in favour of Lula to be arrested. Apart from all that is always surprising to see folks that work in scientific fields to support Bolsonaro who was completely agains any form of science and education, basically being happy that Brazil would be just a commodities exporter ftw.
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      Forgot to mention the piles of evidence and testimony pointing at him, all thrown out and rendered inadmissible by the supreme court judge in his pocket based on some bullshit technicality. > Apart from all that is always surprising to see folks that work in scientific fields to support Bolsonaro who was completely agains any form of science and education Are you a software developer in Brazil? I wonder if you're going to enjoy the regulation of the software developer profession. It's coming.
    - hashtag-til 4y ago
      > Are you a software developer in Brazil? I wonder if you're going to enjoy the regulation of the software developer profession. It's coming. I think this is yet another pointless fearmongering anecdote, that shouldn’t be on this site. Anyway, I am a software developer that is in the market long enough to see that this sort of regulation thing is never going to materialise. I know for a fact that investiment in scientific fields was reduced to near zero during Bolsonaro years and that for me is inadmissible.
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    > Lula thanked him for his help in getting him elected during his speech today. No. Lula and the other authorities congratulated him and thanked him for helping conduct fair elections. Those in turn got Lula elected.
hashtag-til 4y ago
It is very possible to actually game the system with phony charges, and make them stick. No surprise that the most vocal judge prosecuting these charges was later named as minister by Bolsonaro.
- mannerheim 4y ago
  In that case, it's also possible for Bolsonaro to be imprisoned for multiple years on phony charges and therefore rational for him to leave, is it not?

matheusmoreira 4y ago

[flagged]

mr90210 4y ago
Unfortunately you guys did not have an alternative candidate, which I was rooting for. Lula had his time, when the world was a lot different. Anyway, I hope he doesn’t tank the beautiful country and full of potential Brasil is. Tamos juntos!
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > Unfortunately you guys did not have an alternative candidate, which I was rooting for. I agree with you. I don't really support Bolsonaro, I wish we had better candidates. I'm just so sad to see this communist become president again.
  - hashtag-til 4y ago
    > communist Sorry, this is just the kind of exaggerated rhetoric that made the situation to become polarised like this. I really encourage you to stop propagating this kind of nonsense.
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      Exaggerated? Do you want me to post the video of him saying his objective is the installation of socialism in Brazil? The one they said was fake news? Are you going to claim the decades old video is fabricated? I really encourage you not to reply to me again.
      - borski 4y ago
        Genuine question: is it possible he changed his mind? Lots of people said things decades ago that they felt was true or good at the time, but over time people are allowed to change their opinions and learn, right? What is to say that hasn’t happened to Lula?

Veen 4y ago

Because he's concerned he'll be charged with corruption now he's no longer immune from prosecution. He might be guilty of corruption or he might not. Either way, 'democracy' isn't a magical state of affairs that eliminates malicious prosecution and politically motivated miscarriages of justice.

_-david-_ 4y ago

Just because it is a democratic country doesn't mean it is free from corrupt or malicious persecution.

hulitu 4y ago

He just went home. His mission, for the time being, has ended.

matheusmoreira 4y ago
What mission?