6 ms·

I don't understand the use case? From the docs [https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/demo-123.md https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/demo-123.md], the database disap

I don't understand the use case? From the docs [https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/demo-123.md https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/demo-123.md], the database disappears on page reload on top of requiring using workers for longer running processes.

cldellow 4y ago
You can still persist them; you just have to wire it up yourself. Using workers is a best practice for any CPU-bound task, so that's not a drawback by itself in my mind. It's good for single-page applications. Many datasets are relatively small -- pushing them to the client is reasonable. In exchange, you get zero-latency querying and can build very responsive UIs that can use SQL, versus writing REST APIs or GraphQL APIs. Taken to an extreme, it permits publishing datasets that can be queried with no ongoing server-side expenses. A wild example: Datasette is a Python service that makes SQLite databases queryable via the web. It turns out that since you can compile Python and SQLite to WASM, you can run Datasette entirely in the user's browser [1]. The startup time is brutal, because it's literally simulating the `pip install`, but a purpose-built SPA wouldn't have this problem. [1]: https://lite.datasette.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcongress-legislators.datasettes.com%2Flegislators.db https://lite.datasette.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcongress-legisl...
- NeutralForest 4y ago
  Thanks for the explanation, the author of Datasette himself answered, which is a pretty cool thing I like about HN =)
simonw 4y ago
Even without persistence it's absurdly useful. In 2023 loading even a 50MB+ database file into a browser is feasible (that's only 10 heavy React webpage loads) and now you can run SQL queries directly against it in the browser. Plenty of interesting databases fit into less than a MB even. I've been using SQLite in WebAssembly for my Datasette Lite project - a Python server-side web app running entirely in the browser: https://simonwillison.net/2022/May/4/datasette-lite/ https://simonwillison.net/2022/May/4/datasette-lite/ - here's an article showing how that can be useful: https://simonwillison.net/2022/Aug/21/scotrail/ https://simonwillison.net/2022/Aug/21/scotrail/ It's also available in Observable notebooks, which is really handy. Here's a project I built on top of that: https://simonwillison.net/2022/Nov/20/tracking-mastodon/ https://simonwillison.net/2022/Nov/20/tracking-mastodon/ - notebook here: https://observablehq.com/@simonw/mastodon-users-and-statuses-over-time https://observablehq.com/@simonw/mastodon-users-and-statuses...
- NeutralForest 4y ago
  Oh wow, thanks for all the links!
- mbo 4y ago
  Additionally, SQLite in WebAssembly with a HTTP-Range-request based virtual file system greatly simplifies interactive visualisation of large datasets https://observablehq.com/@mjbo/sqljs-httpvfs https://observablehq.com/@mjbo/sqljs-httpvfs (my own demo)
  - simonw 4y ago
    That's a really cool demo notebook.
maccaw 4y ago
Under persistant storage options: https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/persistence.md https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/persistence.md
samwillis 4y ago
The intention is to make use of the new "Origin privet file system" api, this provides the website with a sandboxed block level file system on the users device that can be used for efficient access and writes. It will be possible for WASM SQLite, or any other DB engine ported to WASM, to have full ACID compliance. The SQLite team have been working with browser developers to ensure the new API is sufficient to enable all this. Honestly, and I keep going on about it, SQLite in the browser via WASM is the missing piece to make "offline first" PWAs a serious contender when deciding an architecture for an app. 2023 is going to be the year of SQLite in the browser. https://webkit.org/blog/12257/the-file-system-access-api-with-origin-private-file-system/ https://webkit.org/blog/12257/the-file-system-access-api-wit... https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/persistence.md#opfs https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/persistence.md#opfs https://chromestatus.com/feature/5702777582911488 https://chromestatus.com/feature/5702777582911488
- NeutralForest 4y ago
  Very interesting, seems like I have a lot of reading to do, thanks!
- ec109685 4y ago
  Unfortunately unlike apps, the system doesn’t support backing up local storage managed by the browser, so if you get a new phone, you lose your data.
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    I think the idea is to still sync to a server, but support offline (and low latency!) use too. It's "offline first", not "offline only".

cldellow 4y ago

You can still persist them; you just have to wire it up yourself. Using workers is a best practice for any CPU-bound task, so that's not a drawback by itself in my mind. It's good for single-page applications. Many datasets are relatively small -- pushing them to the client is reasonable. In exchange, you get zero-latency querying and can build very responsive UIs that can use SQL, versus writing REST APIs or GraphQL APIs. Taken to an extreme, it permits publishing datasets that can be queried with no ongoing server-side expenses. A wild example: Datasette is a Python service that makes SQLite databases queryable via the web. It turns out that since you can compile Python and SQLite to WASM, you can run Datasette entirely in the user's browser [1]. The startup time is brutal, because it's literally simulating the `pip install`, but a purpose-built SPA wouldn't have this problem. [1]: https://lite.datasette.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcongress-legislators.datasettes.com%2Flegislators.db https://lite.datasette.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcongress-legisl...

NeutralForest 4y ago
Thanks for the explanation, the author of Datasette himself answered, which is a pretty cool thing I like about HN =)

simonw 4y ago

Even without persistence it's absurdly useful. In 2023 loading even a 50MB+ database file into a browser is feasible (that's only 10 heavy React webpage loads) and now you can run SQL queries directly against it in the browser. Plenty of interesting databases fit into less than a MB even. I've been using SQLite in WebAssembly for my Datasette Lite project - a Python server-side web app running entirely in the browser: https://simonwillison.net/2022/May/4/datasette-lite/ https://simonwillison.net/2022/May/4/datasette-lite/ - here's an article showing how that can be useful: https://simonwillison.net/2022/Aug/21/scotrail/ https://simonwillison.net/2022/Aug/21/scotrail/ It's also available in Observable notebooks, which is really handy. Here's a project I built on top of that: https://simonwillison.net/2022/Nov/20/tracking-mastodon/ https://simonwillison.net/2022/Nov/20/tracking-mastodon/ - notebook here: https://observablehq.com/@simonw/mastodon-users-and-statuses-over-time https://observablehq.com/@simonw/mastodon-users-and-statuses...

NeutralForest 4y ago
Oh wow, thanks for all the links!
mbo 4y ago
Additionally, SQLite in WebAssembly with a HTTP-Range-request based virtual file system greatly simplifies interactive visualisation of large datasets https://observablehq.com/@mjbo/sqljs-httpvfs https://observablehq.com/@mjbo/sqljs-httpvfs (my own demo)
- simonw 4y ago
  That's a really cool demo notebook.

maccaw 4y ago

Under persistant storage options: https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/persistence.md https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/persistence.md

samwillis 4y ago

The intention is to make use of the new "Origin privet file system" api, this provides the website with a sandboxed block level file system on the users device that can be used for efficient access and writes. It will be possible for WASM SQLite, or any other DB engine ported to WASM, to have full ACID compliance. The SQLite team have been working with browser developers to ensure the new API is sufficient to enable all this. Honestly, and I keep going on about it, SQLite in the browser via WASM is the missing piece to make "offline first" PWAs a serious contender when deciding an architecture for an app. 2023 is going to be the year of SQLite in the browser. https://webkit.org/blog/12257/the-file-system-access-api-with-origin-private-file-system/ https://webkit.org/blog/12257/the-file-system-access-api-wit... https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/persistence.md#opfs https://sqlite.org/wasm/doc/trunk/persistence.md#opfs https://chromestatus.com/feature/5702777582911488 https://chromestatus.com/feature/5702777582911488

NeutralForest 4y ago
Very interesting, seems like I have a lot of reading to do, thanks!
ec109685 4y ago
Unfortunately unlike apps, the system doesn’t support backing up local storage managed by the browser, so if you get a new phone, you lose your data.
- yencabulator 4y ago
  I think the idea is to still sync to a server, but support offline (and low latency!) use too. It's "offline first", not "offline only".