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He didn’t have an undergraduate degree because he dropped out of college to serve in the military during WW2, and then graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard La

by ajra 4y ago

He didn’t have an undergraduate degree because he dropped out of college to serve in the military during WW2, and then graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law. Yes, his family connections certainly helped, but it’s hard to say he wasn’t deserving of a place.

tenpies 4y ago
Also worth noting that practicing law in the US, even today, does not require an undergraduate. That requirement is purely a result of academia being academia and eagerly wasting 4 years of people's lives for the sake of not finding a better way to filter people. In most states, to pass the bar, you only need a Juris Doctor which is usually received upon graduating from law school. In some states you don't even need this, and in some others you can skip law school entirely by studying under a judge or practicing attorney[1]. Law, especially in the US, is much more like a trade that accidentally ended up being taught by the universities, instead of a trade school separate from academia. Very similar to medicine in that regard, where again, there is no need for an undergraduate degree to practice medicine. --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admission_to_the_bar_in_the_United_States#Educational_requirement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admission_to_the_bar_in_the_Un...
- vajrabum 4y ago
  No need for an undergraduate degree to practice medicine? Well perhaps not but if you look at the list of classes required to enter most medical schools, and the content of the curriculum most anybody is going to be hard pressed to get in, much less get through it without something pretty close to an undergraduate major in biology or chemistry.
crossroadsguy 4y ago
Then how would you say he was not deserving of the place? OP apparently isn’t talking about the subject’s brilliance or so. I think the OP is talking specifically about the rule bending for the rich. > … his family connections certainly helped, but … Put few people with similar background — except the socioeconomic part of their backgrounds in the same situation and see whether they would have made it. I doubt it. So, I’d say you can omit the “but”.
- caminante 4y ago
  > ...not deserving of the place? FYI, you have it backwards. The parent said Munger was deserving. > I doubt it. Exceptionally bright people exist. Had Munger not gone to HLS immediately or at all, I wouldn't bet against him doing exceptionally well (still top 1% of 1% of business outcomes).
massinstall 4y ago
You may be right about him “deserving” the place, but you appear to be missing the point here: just by pure statistics, there would have been others who also dropped out of college to serve in WW2, but who did not have an influential father like Munger, and who then did not get the admission he did. Also by pure statistics, there is a likelihood that among these others were many who were at least as deserving as he was. In summary, the argument is to point out the difference between personal effort/discipline/work ethic/character (and everything that’s commonly named as the “reason” of success) and the huge impact of external conditions that are completely outside the realm of influence of the individual in question, such as their parent’s wealth and influence, physical build, natural attractiveness, health, location of birth, etc. It is very, VERY common that people uphold and believe in the (comforting) myth that mostly oneself is responsible for success and that said external factors are basically negligible. The “self-made” person… You could even throw them on Mars and they’ll somehow become billionaires and own mansions! There is not much to add, except that such thinking appears outdated (previous economic booms allowed for a bit more control of one’s fate), ignorant, and self-congratulatory - a delusion of a successful person who is neither aware nor grateful for the external circumstances that allowed them to get where they are. FWIW I like Charlie Munger, a down-to-earth thinker who doesn’t shy away from talking about inconvenient truths. Chances are he would even agree with the above. Book recommendation: “Outliers: The Story of Success” by Malcolm Gladwell.

by ajra 4y ago

tenpies 4y ago

Also worth noting that practicing law in the US, even today, does not require an undergraduate. That requirement is purely a result of academia being academia and eagerly wasting 4 years of people's lives for the sake of not finding a better way to filter people. In most states, to pass the bar, you only need a Juris Doctor which is usually received upon graduating from law school. In some states you don't even need this, and in some others you can skip law school entirely by studying under a judge or practicing attorney[1]. Law, especially in the US, is much more like a trade that accidentally ended up being taught by the universities, instead of a trade school separate from academia. Very similar to medicine in that regard, where again, there is no need for an undergraduate degree to practice medicine. --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admission_to_the_bar_in_the_United_States#Educational_requirement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admission_to_the_bar_in_the_Un...

vajrabum 4y ago
No need for an undergraduate degree to practice medicine? Well perhaps not but if you look at the list of classes required to enter most medical schools, and the content of the curriculum most anybody is going to be hard pressed to get in, much less get through it without something pretty close to an undergraduate major in biology or chemistry.

crossroadsguy 4y ago

Then how would you say he was not deserving of the place? OP apparently isn’t talking about the subject’s brilliance or so. I think the OP is talking specifically about the rule bending for the rich. > … his family connections certainly helped, but … Put few people with similar background — except the socioeconomic part of their backgrounds in the same situation and see whether they would have made it. I doubt it. So, I’d say you can omit the “but”.

caminante 4y ago
> ...not deserving of the place? FYI, you have it backwards. The parent said Munger was deserving. > I doubt it. Exceptionally bright people exist. Had Munger not gone to HLS immediately or at all, I wouldn't bet against him doing exceptionally well (still top 1% of 1% of business outcomes).

massinstall 4y ago

You may be right about him “deserving” the place, but you appear to be missing the point here: just by pure statistics, there would have been others who also dropped out of college to serve in WW2, but who did not have an influential father like Munger, and who then did not get the admission he did. Also by pure statistics, there is a likelihood that among these others were many who were at least as deserving as he was. In summary, the argument is to point out the difference between personal effort/discipline/work ethic/character (and everything that’s commonly named as the “reason” of success) and the huge impact of external conditions that are completely outside the realm of influence of the individual in question, such as their parent’s wealth and influence, physical build, natural attractiveness, health, location of birth, etc. It is very, VERY common that people uphold and believe in the (comforting) myth that mostly oneself is responsible for success and that said external factors are basically negligible. The “self-made” person… You could even throw them on Mars and they’ll somehow become billionaires and own mansions! There is not much to add, except that such thinking appears outdated (previous economic booms allowed for a bit more control of one’s fate), ignorant, and self-congratulatory - a delusion of a successful person who is neither aware nor grateful for the external circumstances that allowed them to get where they are. FWIW I like Charlie Munger, a down-to-earth thinker who doesn’t shy away from talking about inconvenient truths. Chances are he would even agree with the above. Book recommendation: “Outliers: The Story of Success” by Malcolm Gladwell.