5 ms·

"I've dropped it each time because while yes, things do work, they tend to STOP working." I've used Linux on the desktop since 1994. In all that time I recall

by wankle 4y ago

"I've dropped it each time because while yes, things do work, they tend to STOP working." I've used Linux on the desktop since 1994. In all that time I recall one breaking update on Debian affecting the wireless network driver. I've used Ubuntu since 2006 and never had any issues like you describe. That is across multiple machine types from Dell, Lenovo and HP. The same is true for my wife who is non-technical and has no issues using Linux (Ubuntu). As another case in addition to the multiple I mentioned already, I'd vouch for the majority of Android phones running fine without issues caused by new updates, I mention Android since there are people who use their phone exclusively for computing, and oddly. Summary, use Ubuntu on the desktop, pick a decent manufacturer like Dell, HP or Lenovo (I prefer Dell and/or Alienware from Dell or Lenovo) and maybe pick one that sells with Linux or made for Linux to further enhance your success. I've heard System 76 makes good systems too.

twosdai 4y ago
I use system76 pop os as a main driver for my desktop. There is a learning curve to do everything and i do occasionally switch to windows for some games. I am a senior engineer as well. I think the biggest thing holding linux desktops back is not technical really it's a human element, like the services to talk on a forum, having things setup ahead of time for the user etc... Windows has a learning curve which people went through if you want to switch to Linux you need to learn. Just as if you start on Linux and wanted to switch to windows you'd have a learning curve.
- evilduck 4y ago
  I use PopOS on a newer Legion 5i. Randomly the BT stopped working after a kernel update last year. Sound and wifi will sometimes not work after resuming from sleep even now. This is my average desktop Linux life experience. Some will trot out their anecdotes that they've never experienced even one issue in decades and others will have showstopping issues at the installer. Both will be right. Anything that doesn't ship with Linux preinstalled is a total crapshoot in my experience of 25 years of using Linux on desktops and laptops. Chromebooks and Android and SteamDecks prove it can be reliable, but it takes coordinated manufacturer effort. Anything else is always a gamble of current support or future updates breaking something that previously was working. Linux issues aren't necessarily harder to solve than Windows issues, but since software compatibility still remains the motivation for average users to switch still remains minimal, and if you recommend the switch you instantly become that person's IT support.
542458 4y ago
Even Ubuntu desktop can be pretty daunting. I remember the App Store (or whatever they call it) falling apart when trying to install Discord and having to resort to command line magic to fix it. That’s sort of the pattern in my experience - Ubuntu desktop mostly “just works”, but occasionally needs a prod from the command line to fix some issue or install some piece of software… but that’s not really acceptable for nontechnical (or even technical but not Linux-savvy) users. The LTT videos where they try to game on Linux and experience a range of interesting issues that require semi-advanced Linux-fu to fix is also a good illustration of this.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Ubuntu is still riding high on their very real and definite status as "The most usable Linux Desktop" from ~2008, but they've long since destroyed everything that got them there, so personally I think the community really needs to pick a new champion in that regard.
- wankle 4y ago
  I've only ever used Discord as a discussion forum. I use Google Voice frequently (audio). I've used Teams and Zoom successfully (native Linux installations). Linus Tech Tips is a jack ass channel. I find it overwhelmingly difficult to comprehend anyone having major issues with Ubuntu. I've not run other Linux varieties much since around 2006.
  - rbits 4y ago
    That's because you are familiar with Linux. I also have had major problems with Linux. I've tried switching to Linux many times, but it has always been a hassle, with major problems (including Ubuntu, although maybe it's gotten better since, I haven't touched for ages). I was only finally able to do it after I learnt a lot more about computers and had the experience from my previous attempts. I could not imagine anyone who is not into computers being able to use Linux in it's current state. I love using Linux now, but it's not perfect, I constantly run into problems, that I can work around, but the average person wouldn't know how to. The reason I still use Linux despite the issues I run into is because I like figuring out that kind of stuff, and I personally find it worth it for all the benefits of Linux. I've only ever tried Ubuntu based distros (Ubuntu, Linux Mint, KDE Neon), so maybe that's the problem, but I doubt it, seeing as everyone always recommends Ubuntu based distros for beginners. Or maybe it's cause I have an Nvidia GPU, which might've been the cause for the worst problems, but Nvidia is really popular, so it's not like other people wouldn't experience those issues. Also, you say "Linus Tech Tips is a jack ass channel" in reference to their Linux videos, are you saying that those videos are wrong or misleading? Because the videos showed you all the issues they ran into (and I found that their experience was almost identical to mine, having to spend days troubleshooting various issues, until finally getting it working properly). Are you suggesting that they lied about the issues that they came across? Cause to me it just seemed like a video showing their experience, it didn't seem biased or anything to me at all. Whenever someone says that they've never had major issues with Linux, I wonder whether we're even talking about the same thing. Did I accidentally download the wrong thing or something? Cause I can't imagine how someone would be able to use Linux and just happen to never come across them.
brabel 4y ago
> I've used Ubuntu since 2006 and never had any issues like you describe. Listen, if you're using Linux and you've never spent hours trying to find out how to install something or fix a problem deep in some obscure configuration file somewhere, are you even on Linux? Don't lie to yourself: you use Linux exactly because you enjoy doing that and pretending like everything works and you never have to fiddle with anything is just dishonest.
- fsflover 4y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33917110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33917110
- pizza234 4y ago
  > Listen, if you're using Linux and you've never spent hours trying to find out how to install something or fix a problem deep in some obscure configuration file somewhere, are you even on Linux? This is different from parent's statement that "things stop working". I definitely spent countless hours with tweaks and fixes (although the pattern is radically different between desktop and laptop systems), but I've essentially never experienced that any component "stopped working". There is only a single exception - an ethernet card that required a 3rd party package, and an update was buggy (later, the driver got upstreamed). Based on my old desktop experience with Windows, it was actually inherently more unstable than Linux, as installers could do whatever they wanted - in Linux, package managers track the changes in the file system instead (to a large extent but not fully, although in worst case, excluding packaging bugs, the leftovers are just data).
  - tmtvl 4y ago
    I have used GNU/Linux as my personal desktop and laptop OS exclusively since 2012 (though I have used Windows 10 and MacOS Yosemite on work computers), and I have had a few issues: - Going from Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 broke Xorg (maybe a problem with the AMD drivers, I lacked knowledge at that time to look into fixing it). - I have occasionally gotten kernel panics under OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, I seem to recall a time when watching videos on YouTube via Firefox would reliably cause it to happen, I don't remember at all how I fixed it at the time; maybe an update or running from a snapshot... or was it under Arch and I installed the LTS kernel? - And a problem of my own making: around the time when the KDE project started transitioning to Plasma 5 I was going back and forth between Arch and OpenSUSE TW and wound up trying Plasma 5 before it was really ready for use and I had a difficult time for a week or two. I also wound up wrecking an Intel NUC the day I got it by putting it to sleep when it had an issue that suspending to RAM would wreck the thing, but that's more of an Intel failure than a GNU/Linux failure. Anyway, I used Windows from version 3.1.1 until I wrecked my 7 install in 2012 so I've seen plenty of blue screens in my life, and I remember the iMac I used Yosemite on hard rebooting every time I started a Xubuntu VM in VirtualBox, so I have no issue just using GNU/Linux even if I do encounter some warts every now and again.

by wankle 4y ago

twosdai 4y ago

I use system76 pop os as a main driver for my desktop. There is a learning curve to do everything and i do occasionally switch to windows for some games. I am a senior engineer as well. I think the biggest thing holding linux desktops back is not technical really it's a human element, like the services to talk on a forum, having things setup ahead of time for the user etc... Windows has a learning curve which people went through if you want to switch to Linux you need to learn. Just as if you start on Linux and wanted to switch to windows you'd have a learning curve.

evilduck 4y ago
I use PopOS on a newer Legion 5i. Randomly the BT stopped working after a kernel update last year. Sound and wifi will sometimes not work after resuming from sleep even now. This is my average desktop Linux life experience. Some will trot out their anecdotes that they've never experienced even one issue in decades and others will have showstopping issues at the installer. Both will be right. Anything that doesn't ship with Linux preinstalled is a total crapshoot in my experience of 25 years of using Linux on desktops and laptops. Chromebooks and Android and SteamDecks prove it can be reliable, but it takes coordinated manufacturer effort. Anything else is always a gamble of current support or future updates breaking something that previously was working. Linux issues aren't necessarily harder to solve than Windows issues, but since software compatibility still remains the motivation for average users to switch still remains minimal, and if you recommend the switch you instantly become that person's IT support.

542458 4y ago

Even Ubuntu desktop can be pretty daunting. I remember the App Store (or whatever they call it) falling apart when trying to install Discord and having to resort to command line magic to fix it. That’s sort of the pattern in my experience - Ubuntu desktop mostly “just works”, but occasionally needs a prod from the command line to fix some issue or install some piece of software… but that’s not really acceptable for nontechnical (or even technical but not Linux-savvy) users. The LTT videos where they try to game on Linux and experience a range of interesting issues that require semi-advanced Linux-fu to fix is also a good illustration of this.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
Ubuntu is still riding high on their very real and definite status as "The most usable Linux Desktop" from ~2008, but they've long since destroyed everything that got them there, so personally I think the community really needs to pick a new champion in that regard.
wankle 4y ago
I've only ever used Discord as a discussion forum. I use Google Voice frequently (audio). I've used Teams and Zoom successfully (native Linux installations). Linus Tech Tips is a jack ass channel. I find it overwhelmingly difficult to comprehend anyone having major issues with Ubuntu. I've not run other Linux varieties much since around 2006.
- rbits 4y ago
  That's because you are familiar with Linux. I also have had major problems with Linux. I've tried switching to Linux many times, but it has always been a hassle, with major problems (including Ubuntu, although maybe it's gotten better since, I haven't touched for ages). I was only finally able to do it after I learnt a lot more about computers and had the experience from my previous attempts. I could not imagine anyone who is not into computers being able to use Linux in it's current state. I love using Linux now, but it's not perfect, I constantly run into problems, that I can work around, but the average person wouldn't know how to. The reason I still use Linux despite the issues I run into is because I like figuring out that kind of stuff, and I personally find it worth it for all the benefits of Linux. I've only ever tried Ubuntu based distros (Ubuntu, Linux Mint, KDE Neon), so maybe that's the problem, but I doubt it, seeing as everyone always recommends Ubuntu based distros for beginners. Or maybe it's cause I have an Nvidia GPU, which might've been the cause for the worst problems, but Nvidia is really popular, so it's not like other people wouldn't experience those issues. Also, you say "Linus Tech Tips is a jack ass channel" in reference to their Linux videos, are you saying that those videos are wrong or misleading? Because the videos showed you all the issues they ran into (and I found that their experience was almost identical to mine, having to spend days troubleshooting various issues, until finally getting it working properly). Are you suggesting that they lied about the issues that they came across? Cause to me it just seemed like a video showing their experience, it didn't seem biased or anything to me at all. Whenever someone says that they've never had major issues with Linux, I wonder whether we're even talking about the same thing. Did I accidentally download the wrong thing or something? Cause I can't imagine how someone would be able to use Linux and just happen to never come across them.

brabel 4y ago

> I've used Ubuntu since 2006 and never had any issues like you describe. Listen, if you're using Linux and you've never spent hours trying to find out how to install something or fix a problem deep in some obscure configuration file somewhere, are you even on Linux? Don't lie to yourself: you use Linux exactly because you enjoy doing that and pretending like everything works and you never have to fiddle with anything is just dishonest.

fsflover 4y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33917110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33917110
pizza234 4y ago
> Listen, if you're using Linux and you've never spent hours trying to find out how to install something or fix a problem deep in some obscure configuration file somewhere, are you even on Linux? This is different from parent's statement that "things stop working". I definitely spent countless hours with tweaks and fixes (although the pattern is radically different between desktop and laptop systems), but I've essentially never experienced that any component "stopped working". There is only a single exception - an ethernet card that required a 3rd party package, and an update was buggy (later, the driver got upstreamed). Based on my old desktop experience with Windows, it was actually inherently more unstable than Linux, as installers could do whatever they wanted - in Linux, package managers track the changes in the file system instead (to a large extent but not fully, although in worst case, excluding packaging bugs, the leftovers are just data).
- tmtvl 4y ago
  I have used GNU/Linux as my personal desktop and laptop OS exclusively since 2012 (though I have used Windows 10 and MacOS Yosemite on work computers), and I have had a few issues: - Going from Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 broke Xorg (maybe a problem with the AMD drivers, I lacked knowledge at that time to look into fixing it). - I have occasionally gotten kernel panics under OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, I seem to recall a time when watching videos on YouTube via Firefox would reliably cause it to happen, I don't remember at all how I fixed it at the time; maybe an update or running from a snapshot... or was it under Arch and I installed the LTS kernel? - And a problem of my own making: around the time when the KDE project started transitioning to Plasma 5 I was going back and forth between Arch and OpenSUSE TW and wound up trying Plasma 5 before it was really ready for use and I had a difficult time for a week or two. I also wound up wrecking an Intel NUC the day I got it by putting it to sleep when it had an issue that suspending to RAM would wreck the thing, but that's more of an Intel failure than a GNU/Linux failure. Anyway, I used Windows from version 3.1.1 until I wrecked my 7 install in 2012 so I've seen plenty of blue screens in my life, and I remember the iMac I used Yosemite on hard rebooting every time I started a Xubuntu VM in VirtualBox, so I have no issue just using GNU/Linux even if I do encounter some warts every now and again.