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For a number of hobbies -- mostly but not entirely male-coded -- there is the hobby itself, and then the hobby of hacking around on the hobby. I got an espress

For a number of hobbies -- mostly but not entirely male-coded -- there is the hobby itself, and then the hobby of hacking around on the hobby. I got an espresso machine last year. I was looking for a grinder. A huge chunk of online coffee folks suggested buying a weird grinder from China and swapping out burr sets and and and and ... and all I wanted was a turnkey grinder. I just wanted coffee. I didn't need to make a hobby of the equipment itself. This also exists with motorcycles. I just want to ride a motorcycle. I don't have any interest in the endless mod culture of motorcycles. And so Linux on the desktop. Linux on the desktop is great if you enjoy having to actively sysadmin your work environment, but it's shit if you just want to get some work done. The people who run it full time are people, mostly, who like the hacking part of the hobby in addition to the using part of the hobby. And I don't see that changing. There was definitely a window in the late 90s when this could've been different, but then Apple moved to OS X, and I think that window closed forever.

wankle 4y ago
"Linux on the desktop is great if you enjoy having to actively sysadmin your work environment, but it's shit if you just want to get some work done." My wife who is non-technical uses it to get stuff done, all that she ever did on Windows, no issues after years of use. I know of other non-technical users who use it without issue. They probably know many who use it without issue. So your case seems to be isolated and unusual.
- evilduck 4y ago
  Try using a new RTX GPU or a Wifi 6E network to it's fullest, or two screens with different scaling with Linux. You will not have a nice experience.
  - wankle 4y ago
    Using a new Dell Alienware PC now, first thing I did, install Ubuntu, wiping Windows. RTX 3080 is the GPU. Been using nvidia for years, they rock. I game on it using Steam Proton which also rocks, and run other native Linux games. Haven't needed to try the WiFi on it yet. Only use one screen, not sure why I'd need two.
    - royjacobs 4y ago
      "Haven't needed to try the WiFi on it yet. Only use one screen, not sure why I'd need two." If you never use WiFi or two screens then maybe you shouldn't dismiss other people's issues with Linux as being unusual.
    - ubermonkey 4y ago
      "Haven't needed to try the WiFi on it yet. Only use one screen, not sure why I'd need two." I actually laughed. "It's fine! Just don't do things that most people do all the time! In fact I think those things are dumb!"
    - evilduck 4y ago
      Found a new one for you just this morning. My laptop was plugged into an external monitor and I walked away for a bit. I came back a couple hours later, closed the lid, unplugged the HDMI and power and carried it upstairs just like I would do with my Macs or this same computer booted into Windows. Whoops! How stupid of me. This is Linux, I'm holding it wrong. Unplugging a screen from a sleeping Linux computer is not reasonable user behavior, so an unresponsive black screen it is. Yeah, I probably could have restarted the UI service manually by hopping over to another shell but it's flat out faster to hard reboot. Linux is still a 3rd tier desktop experience.
acomjean 4y ago
I’ve been using Linux on the desktop for 4 years now. Im no means a sys admin. I bought a pre configured machine because i didn’t want any hassle. It’s largely delivered and hasn’t been any worse than the Mac I used to use at work. Im using pop which is a Ubuntu flavor. I’ve had one problem upgrading (some package was ahead of where it needed to be..). It got resolved with a few terminal commands. (I think because I installed steam..) it’s not perfect, the software installer could be better, but man it’s pretty great. Window managers are fantastic. Honestly after some adjustment I’m staying here. I’m not dependent on any one company and I feel the OS is respectful unlike the commercial offerings.
noisy_boy 4y ago
> it's shit if you just want to get some work done I donno what work you want to get done but I've been getting work done on Linux for over 15 years without any issues unless they were my own creation by messing about/tinkering with what was provided out of the box by the distro - for those cases, I knew I was into risky waters and was willing to accept the risks (as it happened, I was always able to overcome those and never lost any data etc). If you do a fresh install and do things like, use web based apps, manage documents/worksheets (say using Libreoffice) and maybe run your business application, I don't know why things would go to shit. Keep your base software changes to security fixes and don't upgrade unless you have to - things should basically chug along. Disclaimer: if you are running a laptop with Nvidia, then I have to accept that it is shit; causes all kinds of issues with upgrades etc. In that case, either use integrated graphics or go with AMD.
- ubermonkey 4y ago
  But it sounds like you're also the sort of person who wants to do the tinkering, so...

wankle 4y ago

"Linux on the desktop is great if you enjoy having to actively sysadmin your work environment, but it's shit if you just want to get some work done." My wife who is non-technical uses it to get stuff done, all that she ever did on Windows, no issues after years of use. I know of other non-technical users who use it without issue. They probably know many who use it without issue. So your case seems to be isolated and unusual.

evilduck 4y ago
Try using a new RTX GPU or a Wifi 6E network to it's fullest, or two screens with different scaling with Linux. You will not have a nice experience.
- wankle 4y ago
  Using a new Dell Alienware PC now, first thing I did, install Ubuntu, wiping Windows. RTX 3080 is the GPU. Been using nvidia for years, they rock. I game on it using Steam Proton which also rocks, and run other native Linux games. Haven't needed to try the WiFi on it yet. Only use one screen, not sure why I'd need two.
  - royjacobs 4y ago
    "Haven't needed to try the WiFi on it yet. Only use one screen, not sure why I'd need two." If you never use WiFi or two screens then maybe you shouldn't dismiss other people's issues with Linux as being unusual.
  - ubermonkey 4y ago
    "Haven't needed to try the WiFi on it yet. Only use one screen, not sure why I'd need two." I actually laughed. "It's fine! Just don't do things that most people do all the time! In fact I think those things are dumb!"
  - evilduck 4y ago
    Found a new one for you just this morning. My laptop was plugged into an external monitor and I walked away for a bit. I came back a couple hours later, closed the lid, unplugged the HDMI and power and carried it upstairs just like I would do with my Macs or this same computer booted into Windows. Whoops! How stupid of me. This is Linux, I'm holding it wrong. Unplugging a screen from a sleeping Linux computer is not reasonable user behavior, so an unresponsive black screen it is. Yeah, I probably could have restarted the UI service manually by hopping over to another shell but it's flat out faster to hard reboot. Linux is still a 3rd tier desktop experience.

acomjean 4y ago

I’ve been using Linux on the desktop for 4 years now. Im no means a sys admin. I bought a pre configured machine because i didn’t want any hassle. It’s largely delivered and hasn’t been any worse than the Mac I used to use at work. Im using pop which is a Ubuntu flavor. I’ve had one problem upgrading (some package was ahead of where it needed to be..). It got resolved with a few terminal commands. (I think because I installed steam..) it’s not perfect, the software installer could be better, but man it’s pretty great. Window managers are fantastic. Honestly after some adjustment I’m staying here. I’m not dependent on any one company and I feel the OS is respectful unlike the commercial offerings.

noisy_boy 4y ago

> it's shit if you just want to get some work done I donno what work you want to get done but I've been getting work done on Linux for over 15 years without any issues unless they were my own creation by messing about/tinkering with what was provided out of the box by the distro - for those cases, I knew I was into risky waters and was willing to accept the risks (as it happened, I was always able to overcome those and never lost any data etc). If you do a fresh install and do things like, use web based apps, manage documents/worksheets (say using Libreoffice) and maybe run your business application, I don't know why things would go to shit. Keep your base software changes to security fixes and don't upgrade unless you have to - things should basically chug along. Disclaimer: if you are running a laptop with Nvidia, then I have to accept that it is shit; causes all kinds of issues with upgrades etc. In that case, either use integrated graphics or go with AMD.

ubermonkey 4y ago
But it sounds like you're also the sort of person who wants to do the tinkering, so...