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Virtual Desktops have come straight from Linux. CLIs, which are becoming increasingly more supported and important on both Windows and MacOS are thanks to Linu

Virtual Desktops have come straight from Linux. CLIs, which are becoming increasingly more supported and important on both Windows and MacOS are thanks to Linux. Windows is a really straightforward example of this where Powershell has aliased a bunch of Linux commands to the powershell command (e.g. grep is an Alias for Select-String in powershell). Window management features are being driven by Linux. The most successful example of this is tiling window functionality driven largely by tiling window managers from the Linux world. Developers on both Windows and MacOS depend on package management software picked up straight from Linux, such as chocolatey/scoop in the former and brew with the latter. Almost every Windows and Mac software is developed using git. Git was literally invented for writing Linux. The list goes on, but Windows and MacOS have a lot to thank Linux for. Linux has also been a major pillar of open source in general. Much of the open source software ecosystem depends on Linux and the development and philosophy around it to sustain it.

sbuk 4y ago
> Virtual Desktops have come straight from Linux. Pretty sure I was using virtual desktops in CDE in 1995. At the time GNU/Linux had extremely limited, if any, desktops. > CLIs, which are becoming increasingly more supported and important on both Windows and MacOS are thanks to Linux. CLI's predate Linux by quite some time! DOS, heck Windows 1.0, was essentially a CLI application! Those 'Linux' commands are part of the GNU suite, named for various UNIX programs that they emulate. > Developers on both Windows and MacOS depend on package management software picked up straight from Linux, such as chocolatey/scoop in the former and brew with the latter. Can't speak for Windows, but Mac package managers have been around for longer than brew has existed and certainly as long as OS X/macOS has been in existence. Fink (2000) and Macports (2002) spring to mind. The two oldest package managers are dpkg, closely followed by FreeBSD ports in 1994. Everything else is post 2000, barring perhaps RPM and APT. > Almost every Windows and Mac software is developed using git. Git was literally invented for writing Linux. Git was invented not for writing Linux, but to maintain the source because BitKeeper screwed the community over. It won mindshare off the back of that because it wasn't CVS or SVN. This comment is what is bad for Linux. A lot of us old-timers were around for all of this, and before GNU/Linux was a twinkling in the eyes of their founders. Yes, there has been a lot of positive contributions from Linux and the community, but can we please stop presenting it as some sort of panacea? It very definitely isn't.
- dagmx 4y ago
  To add to your points, since macOS is BSD derived, certainly the BSD package manager inspired it more (hence also why MacPorts is popular too from 2002 onwards) Also, I agree with your last point. Comments like theirs are endemic of having too much of a hyper focus on what one is passionate about, and causing folks to miss seeing the bigger picture. There’s also a heavy recency bias involved.
- jrm4 4y ago
  No. Stop being old and grumpy and join in instead. No one outside of here much cares about the fine grained differences between GNU/Linux and Unix and they mostly shouldn't have to. The more important part is that the general spirit (strongly buttressed by the GPL and Stallman, I'd argue, more than anything else but we can debate) represents a better and smarter way of looking at computing than letting everything we do get taken over overly greedy companies. There's some need for "capitalism" for sure, but this was the more important part.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    I think it’s a bit rude to call them old and grumpy for accurately calling out inaccuracies in the other persons comments. The GPL’nes of it all didn’t even factor into the other posters comments about feature influence, and I’d argue that it’s not a factor in influencing Windows/Mac at a regular consumer level.
  - sbuk 4y ago
    Clearly the GP does as they cite it a things that they think come directly from Linux and/or it's influenced general computing. I'm just setting them straight on few things.
dagmx 4y ago
Some of your points are odd here. Virtual Desktops predate Linux, and were part of Parc systems. They’re a feature of X, but we’re featured on non X systems as well. Macs had a form of it in MultiFinder before Linux was around and much like many UI elements on the Mac (and everything else really), was more influenced by Xerox. CLIs also predate the existence of Linux. In fact all the other OSs started out as CLI heavy/only and then moved to adding a UI. The main CLI systems are posix/Unix based not Linux based. There’s a lot to thank Linux for, or more specifically Linus (for git), but I’d also just take some care in which examples you pick. A lot of these systems have shared influences
- jrm4 4y ago
  Sure, but I'd argue that the most useful way to talk about this is, especially to the rest of the world is START WITH: "Linux is awesome and this is where all the good things in computers come from" Start with that carrot. Yes, it's reductive and an oversimplification. Do it anyway. Later on, you can get into the "actually's," -- actually Unix, actually GPL, actually GNU/Linux, actually Android isn't, blah blah.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    I don’t think I understand your point. If I understand correctly, you’re advocating for dishonesty to push Linux as an agenda?
    - jrm4 4y ago
      It's in no way dishonesty anymore than any other nerd debate. I know we like the idea of things having precise definitions, but the reality is they often don't, even in our field.. Much like "Object Oriented Programming" or "Agile" or whatnot, people literally do have different definitions of what "Linux" is. I teach in IT, often to students unfamiliar with it. If I came in the class and the first thing I'm doing is stopping and correcting people with "you should really say GNU/Linux instead of Linux," we ain't gettin' nowhere. I do that part, just later.
dmitriid 4y ago
Some of those are stretch to call pressure and innovation (CLI? It's old as computing). Some of those are perhaps coming from "pressure" from Linux (some tiling possibilities). Then you go on to confuse developer tools with desktop. To say MacOS/Windows desktops would not be what they are today without Linux is absolutely laughable. Original Macintosh HIGs from 1980s had more innovation on each page with regards to desktop than Linux has had since its inception.

sbuk 4y ago

> Virtual Desktops have come straight from Linux. Pretty sure I was using virtual desktops in CDE in 1995. At the time GNU/Linux had extremely limited, if any, desktops. > CLIs, which are becoming increasingly more supported and important on both Windows and MacOS are thanks to Linux. CLI's predate Linux by quite some time! DOS, heck Windows 1.0, was essentially a CLI application! Those 'Linux' commands are part of the GNU suite, named for various UNIX programs that they emulate. > Developers on both Windows and MacOS depend on package management software picked up straight from Linux, such as chocolatey/scoop in the former and brew with the latter. Can't speak for Windows, but Mac package managers have been around for longer than brew has existed and certainly as long as OS X/macOS has been in existence. Fink (2000) and Macports (2002) spring to mind. The two oldest package managers are dpkg, closely followed by FreeBSD ports in 1994. Everything else is post 2000, barring perhaps RPM and APT. > Almost every Windows and Mac software is developed using git. Git was literally invented for writing Linux. Git was invented not for writing Linux, but to maintain the source because BitKeeper screwed the community over. It won mindshare off the back of that because it wasn't CVS or SVN. This comment is what is bad for Linux. A lot of us old-timers were around for all of this, and before GNU/Linux was a twinkling in the eyes of their founders. Yes, there has been a lot of positive contributions from Linux and the community, but can we please stop presenting it as some sort of panacea? It very definitely isn't.

dagmx 4y ago
To add to your points, since macOS is BSD derived, certainly the BSD package manager inspired it more (hence also why MacPorts is popular too from 2002 onwards) Also, I agree with your last point. Comments like theirs are endemic of having too much of a hyper focus on what one is passionate about, and causing folks to miss seeing the bigger picture. There’s also a heavy recency bias involved.
jrm4 4y ago
No. Stop being old and grumpy and join in instead. No one outside of here much cares about the fine grained differences between GNU/Linux and Unix and they mostly shouldn't have to. The more important part is that the general spirit (strongly buttressed by the GPL and Stallman, I'd argue, more than anything else but we can debate) represents a better and smarter way of looking at computing than letting everything we do get taken over overly greedy companies. There's some need for "capitalism" for sure, but this was the more important part.
- dagmx 4y ago
  I think it’s a bit rude to call them old and grumpy for accurately calling out inaccuracies in the other persons comments. The GPL’nes of it all didn’t even factor into the other posters comments about feature influence, and I’d argue that it’s not a factor in influencing Windows/Mac at a regular consumer level.
- sbuk 4y ago
  Clearly the GP does as they cite it a things that they think come directly from Linux and/or it's influenced general computing. I'm just setting them straight on few things.

dagmx 4y ago

Some of your points are odd here. Virtual Desktops predate Linux, and were part of Parc systems. They’re a feature of X, but we’re featured on non X systems as well. Macs had a form of it in MultiFinder before Linux was around and much like many UI elements on the Mac (and everything else really), was more influenced by Xerox. CLIs also predate the existence of Linux. In fact all the other OSs started out as CLI heavy/only and then moved to adding a UI. The main CLI systems are posix/Unix based not Linux based. There’s a lot to thank Linux for, or more specifically Linus (for git), but I’d also just take some care in which examples you pick. A lot of these systems have shared influences

jrm4 4y ago
Sure, but I'd argue that the most useful way to talk about this is, especially to the rest of the world is START WITH: "Linux is awesome and this is where all the good things in computers come from" Start with that carrot. Yes, it's reductive and an oversimplification. Do it anyway. Later on, you can get into the "actually's," -- actually Unix, actually GPL, actually GNU/Linux, actually Android isn't, blah blah.
- dagmx 4y ago
  I don’t think I understand your point. If I understand correctly, you’re advocating for dishonesty to push Linux as an agenda?
  - jrm4 4y ago
    It's in no way dishonesty anymore than any other nerd debate. I know we like the idea of things having precise definitions, but the reality is they often don't, even in our field.. Much like "Object Oriented Programming" or "Agile" or whatnot, people literally do have different definitions of what "Linux" is. I teach in IT, often to students unfamiliar with it. If I came in the class and the first thing I'm doing is stopping and correcting people with "you should really say GNU/Linux instead of Linux," we ain't gettin' nowhere. I do that part, just later.

dmitriid 4y ago

Some of those are stretch to call pressure and innovation (CLI? It's old as computing). Some of those are perhaps coming from "pressure" from Linux (some tiling possibilities). Then you go on to confuse developer tools with desktop. To say MacOS/Windows desktops would not be what they are today without Linux is absolutely laughable. Original Macintosh HIGs from 1980s had more innovation on each page with regards to desktop than Linux has had since its inception.