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IMO Linux Desktops can be the best option for both for a certain type of developer¹ and for extremely unskilled users². ¹ e.g. web, system development, backend

by atoav 4y ago

IMO Linux Desktops can be the best option for both for a certain type of developer¹ and for extremely unskilled users². ¹ e.g. web, system development, backend, admin. KDE Plasma is both extremely usable and customizable. I haven't missed anything in comparison with Windows and Mac systems (in fact I always miss stuff when using the other systems). ² I switched my parents to Ubuntu a while back and it has been a surprisingly good decision (90% less support call about weird popup windows, missing icons, etc.) Linux comes with it's own challenges, but compared to 10 years ago most of the stuff just works now

wkat4242 4y ago
I really love KDE's power user configurability as much as I hate Gnome's opinionated design :) I moved to Linux because Apple pissed me off too much so gnome was too much of the same. Though I can see how it does work for other people. So great that Linux still has choices.
- wankle 4y ago
  I've never used Apple, never liked Jobs or the too high prices. KDE rules, Gnome 2 was good but was never a fan of Gnome 3. KDE has done it right (speaking as a technical user).
paulwilsondev 4y ago
same - the only issue I run into is printer
- diydsp 4y ago
  Same gah. Also bluetooth. TIOATOA solves the prob tho
  - _emacsomancer_ 4y ago
    What is TIOATOA?
    - diydsp 4y ago
      Turning it off and then on again
  - jejones3141 4y ago
    TIOATOA?
    - meanmrmustard92 4y ago
      polynesian god of high fidelity bluetooth playback
- abenga 4y ago
  I can't remember the last time I plugged in a printer/scanner on Linux and it didn't work without me needing to do anything. Brother, HP, and Kyocera printers over the last couple of years have all worked without issue on first plug.
ubermonkey 4y ago
If the Mac didn't exist, yeah, it would have been TEMPTING to try and get my parents onto it . . . except: no. They wanted Quicken and Quickbooks. They wanted easy document sharing with Office. They wanted easy access to scanners for photo conversion. So the Mac was the right choice. I can see setting up a Linux machine for a less demanding audience, but it's a narrow use case.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Linux won't Quicken for you (a tragedy, I know), but interop with scanners and Microsoft office is easy. Libreoffice has had really straightforward docx support for years and the printer/scanner driver is literally the same one MacOS uses (CUPS). It's still a nuanced decision and I agree with your original conclusion. That being said, if you're going to assist them with setting up any machine then I don't see why Linux would be particularly difficult (besides the Quicken-ing).
  - ubermonkey 4y ago
    But Quicken is a dealkiller here. Also, the interoperability of Libreoffice is, in my experience, deeply flawed. It was a compelling option when Office was expensive, but now that the real deal is cheap I don't see many non-ideological reasons to use it.
- LeFantome 4y ago
  You have hit on the real issue here, in my opinion, but framed it terribly. The suitability of Linux for any given person often has nothing to do anymore with ease of use or of its capabilities. As with others here, I have people in my life I provide tech support to. I have moved some off Windows to Linux and had those requests go down. There are others I would never recommend Linux for. My wife uses MacOS. I use a bit of everything operating system wise. My most frequent daily driver is my wife’s old iMac but I run Linux on it. By default I would have left MacOS on it but MacOS was a massive pain actually. Many of the applications I want to run are a hassle to source and maintain on MacOS. A bigger problem was that the iMac no longer runs the most recent MacOS which means there are many other apps whose current versions cannot be run on it either. For me, moving to Linux on this hardware meant dramatically fewer problems, more focus on actual work, and easy access to a much larger and up-to-date universe of applications. I do not mean just Open Source either. Examples of applications whose latest versions only run on Linux include Microsoft Edge, Teams, Zoom, Slack, and probably a bunch more I have forgotten. I use a lot of Podman ( Docker ) containers and these work significantly better under Linux. I collaborate professionally and share office documents every day using both LibreOffice and Office 365 on the web. To counter your example, peripheral compatibility including my newer printers and scanners is better under Linux as well. I honestly doubt I represent a less “demanding audience” than your parents. The percentage of the market that would be perfectly happy with my setup is probably not “narrow”. I have no doubt though that running Qhickbooks would be a hassle for me. And this I think is the key point of the “normies” argument. My mother does not have demanding needs. What she does have are friends that will recommend things or send her stuff that assumes the same environment they are using. Her “techie” friends ( hardly ) may send her instructions on how to do things which again assume she is using the same environment they are. Unless you are a tinkerer, all this is just easier and goes better if you are using the same platform ( Windows for almost everyone ). The same could be said of Chrome vs Firefox though really. People buy iPhones so that their text messages to friends show as blue instead of green. For many people, the killer feature is “being the same”. If you are a “normie” and you heavily rely on an platform specific application, switching is hard. Not because other platforms lack power but simply because they are different. My wife’s friends and colleagues mostly use Macs and, because of her iPhone, she is a heavy user of the Apple ecosystem. MacOS makes the most sense for her. If I completely switched back to MacOS or Windows at this point, I would hate it and have a long list of examples of basic tasks that are too hard or how they are not powerful enough for me. Many people who switch to Linux feel the same. As above though, I use all the major operating systems regularly and, as a casual user ( what I am much of the time ), they are all fine.

by atoav 4y ago

wkat4242 4y ago

I really love KDE's power user configurability as much as I hate Gnome's opinionated design :) I moved to Linux because Apple pissed me off too much so gnome was too much of the same. Though I can see how it does work for other people. So great that Linux still has choices.

wankle 4y ago
I've never used Apple, never liked Jobs or the too high prices. KDE rules, Gnome 2 was good but was never a fan of Gnome 3. KDE has done it right (speaking as a technical user).

paulwilsondev 4y ago

same - the only issue I run into is printer

diydsp 4y ago
Same gah. Also bluetooth. TIOATOA solves the prob tho
- _emacsomancer_ 4y ago
  What is TIOATOA?
  - diydsp 4y ago
    Turning it off and then on again
- jejones3141 4y ago
  TIOATOA?
  - meanmrmustard92 4y ago
    polynesian god of high fidelity bluetooth playback
abenga 4y ago
I can't remember the last time I plugged in a printer/scanner on Linux and it didn't work without me needing to do anything. Brother, HP, and Kyocera printers over the last couple of years have all worked without issue on first plug.

ubermonkey 4y ago

If the Mac didn't exist, yeah, it would have been TEMPTING to try and get my parents onto it . . . except: no. They wanted Quicken and Quickbooks. They wanted easy document sharing with Office. They wanted easy access to scanners for photo conversion. So the Mac was the right choice. I can see setting up a Linux machine for a less demanding audience, but it's a narrow use case.

smoldesu 4y ago
Linux won't Quicken for you (a tragedy, I know), but interop with scanners and Microsoft office is easy. Libreoffice has had really straightforward docx support for years and the printer/scanner driver is literally the same one MacOS uses (CUPS). It's still a nuanced decision and I agree with your original conclusion. That being said, if you're going to assist them with setting up any machine then I don't see why Linux would be particularly difficult (besides the Quicken-ing).
- ubermonkey 4y ago
  But Quicken is a dealkiller here. Also, the interoperability of Libreoffice is, in my experience, deeply flawed. It was a compelling option when Office was expensive, but now that the real deal is cheap I don't see many non-ideological reasons to use it.
LeFantome 4y ago
You have hit on the real issue here, in my opinion, but framed it terribly. The suitability of Linux for any given person often has nothing to do anymore with ease of use or of its capabilities. As with others here, I have people in my life I provide tech support to. I have moved some off Windows to Linux and had those requests go down. There are others I would never recommend Linux for. My wife uses MacOS. I use a bit of everything operating system wise. My most frequent daily driver is my wife’s old iMac but I run Linux on it. By default I would have left MacOS on it but MacOS was a massive pain actually. Many of the applications I want to run are a hassle to source and maintain on MacOS. A bigger problem was that the iMac no longer runs the most recent MacOS which means there are many other apps whose current versions cannot be run on it either. For me, moving to Linux on this hardware meant dramatically fewer problems, more focus on actual work, and easy access to a much larger and up-to-date universe of applications. I do not mean just Open Source either. Examples of applications whose latest versions only run on Linux include Microsoft Edge, Teams, Zoom, Slack, and probably a bunch more I have forgotten. I use a lot of Podman ( Docker ) containers and these work significantly better under Linux. I collaborate professionally and share office documents every day using both LibreOffice and Office 365 on the web. To counter your example, peripheral compatibility including my newer printers and scanners is better under Linux as well. I honestly doubt I represent a less “demanding audience” than your parents. The percentage of the market that would be perfectly happy with my setup is probably not “narrow”. I have no doubt though that running Qhickbooks would be a hassle for me. And this I think is the key point of the “normies” argument. My mother does not have demanding needs. What she does have are friends that will recommend things or send her stuff that assumes the same environment they are using. Her “techie” friends ( hardly ) may send her instructions on how to do things which again assume she is using the same environment they are. Unless you are a tinkerer, all this is just easier and goes better if you are using the same platform ( Windows for almost everyone ). The same could be said of Chrome vs Firefox though really. People buy iPhones so that their text messages to friends show as blue instead of green. For many people, the killer feature is “being the same”. If you are a “normie” and you heavily rely on an platform specific application, switching is hard. Not because other platforms lack power but simply because they are different. My wife’s friends and colleagues mostly use Macs and, because of her iPhone, she is a heavy user of the Apple ecosystem. MacOS makes the most sense for her. If I completely switched back to MacOS or Windows at this point, I would hate it and have a long list of examples of basic tasks that are too hard or how they are not powerful enough for me. Many people who switch to Linux feel the same. As above though, I use all the major operating systems regularly and, as a casual user ( what I am much of the time ), they are all fine.